Response to a Letter from Dr. Roderick C. Meredith Dated December 28, 2012

By Bob Thiel

Many realized that I was the most prolific supporter of the Living Church of God (LCG) from its official beginning in 1998 until sometime in 2012. While reasons why I left LCG have been explained in the past (see also Why Bob Thiel Left the Living Church of God; en el idioma español:¿Por qué Bob Thiel dejó la Iglesia del Dios Viviente?), I have not directly addressed several of the accusations leveled against me by its Presiding Evangelist Dr. Roderick C. Meredith.

Partially because of this, various ones have made a variety of improper assumptions and/or incomplete conclusions about my departure, so the intent of this article is to go into some details related to a December 28, 2012 letter from Dr. Meredith.

Some Background

Before getting to that letter, some background may be helpful.  I was baptized by a Worldwide Church of God minister in 1977 and stayed with that church until 1995.  I first met Dr. Meredith at the Feast of Tabernacles in Fiji in 1989.  We met a few times after this, but he really began to remember me at the Feast of Tabernacles in Branson, Missouri in 1998, just prior to the Global Church of God (GCG) split that he suspected was coming at that time (he gave me his home telephone number then and we discussed issues that the GCG editorial department had about him and something they said when they published an article that I wrote for the old Global Church News). 

When the GCG split happened, we discussed it over the telephone and Dr. Meredith encouraged my internet support of what he was then doing via my website cogwriter.comand I provided it.  For a very short time, was from a functional perspective LCG's only website (though LCG never owned it or paid for any of it).  After the crisis subsided, the late evangelist Carl McNair had me promise to keep the site goingand it still is.

Throughout the years, I had been an unpaid adviser to Dr. Meredith on various matters.  Sometime in late 1999 (it could have been another year), Dr. Meredith made me promise, over my objections, that I had to tell him when I thought he was 'pulling punches' doctrinally.  I tried to diligently carry that out, and that, for the first most obvious example, led to a major revision of LCG's Official Statement of Fundamental Beliefs in November 2002 (the main point of which was to include more of the 18 restored truths to it).

Advisor Appointment Followed By Disturbing Matters

In the late Summer of 2005, Dr. Meredith formally asked if I would be a volunteer advisor to the 'doctrinal committee' (basically meaning an advisor on these matters to the Charlotte-based evangelists) in the areas of doctrine and prophecy.  I agreed.

However, there were many disturbing issues that crept up over time.  Perhaps the five biggest were:

1) The realization that LCG would not publish corrections in its Tomorrow's World magazine or other publications when it made doctrinal errors.
2) That LCG was too willing to send out literature with known errors that its leadership knew about
3) That the leadership did not seem to keep all of its promises.
4) That the falling away matter change was not condemned strongly enough. 
5) The leadership did not seem to practice various portions of the Bible, such as Matthew 18:15-17, the way that it seemed that they should.

Why did I keep supporting LCG then?

The two main reasons were that I did not see any other COG group as close to the Philadelphia standard as LCG and the fact that the leadership would often basically apologize for not keeping its promises and then would tell me that it would keep them and that it would correct various booklets and other literature.  And this happened multiple times in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 (and they paid to fly me out to Charlotte a couple of times to go over these matters, so I presumed that they were serious).  I also met with Dr. D. Winnail in 2011 and 2012 where he basically did so himself. On December 16, 2011, Dr. Meredith personally committed to making at least the most significant changes I advised related to LCG's Official Statement of Fundamental Beliefs by the end of January 2012; to see what those were click on the next link for two emails followed by the December 2011 Proposed changes to LCG's Official Statement of Fundamental Beliefsmy proposed changes to the Statement are shown in red and explanations are shown in the footnotes that were also submitted. As of November 15, 2013, the changes were not made and LCG's Statement with the errors is still being made available according to an online check.

Furthermore, I had met with Richard Ames on the Last Great Day in 2012 (October 8, 2012) and asked if it would be okay to bring up errors related to one LCG booklet, my thoughts on the Falling Away matter, as well as the final phase of the work. He concurred, so I committed to doing so.

Therefore in October 2012, I began again to work with William Bowmer (Executive Editor for LCG).  He agreed that certain errors and questionable assertions needed to be dealt with, but also stated in an email on October 18, 2012 that LCG would continue to distribute over 20,000 error-filled booklets (see October 2012 Emails Related to GCA Booklet).  This was disturbing and did not appear to be a proper Christian standard. This was the second or third time I learned something like this, and had been told before that LCG would stop this, but obviously that promise was also not kept.  As of November 15, 2013, that booklet is still being made available with those same errors according to an online check.

On October 23, 2012, I also sent a version of my falling away paper to Richard Ames, who did not respond to it.  And finally, in December 2012, I sent my paper on the final phase of the work to Richard Ames and thus fulfilled my last promised commitment to him.  (The main content of both papers has since been posted and updated, see: The Falling Away: The Bible and WCG Teachings and The Final Phase of the Work.)

During this time, an LCG minister said to send the chronology related to prophet matters to some on the Council of Elders who did not have it, so I did (a version of which is shown as part of the 12/28/12 p.m. update at

Various ones, several times during December 2012, said that Dr. Meredith would talk to me about my concerns related to the falling away matter, booklet issues, the final phase of the work, and other doctrinal matters I brought up.

He not only refused to speak with me, instead he sent a letter on 12/28/12 that was unrelated to what I had been led to believe we would discuss.

Before getting to that letter, let me state that at no time did Dr. Meredith ever tell me prior to his letter that he felt I had a problem, 'feelings of greatness,' or any such subjects. Nor was that ever any topic that my local LCG pastor (Dr. Jeff Fall) or my previous LCG minister ever brought up to me.

The reason that this is important to bring out first is that Matthew 18 says that if one feels that a brother has somehow sinned against him, one should privately go to one’s brother about it (vs. 15).

It then states that if he will not listen, to bring another (vs. 16).  And if after all that he refuses to listen, that the problem should be told to the church (vs. 17). 

But Dr. Meredith did none of that.  Some may be surprised how one could be an evangelist for so many decades and not follow this.  I will simply flat out state that he did not follow what Jesus said to do in Matthew 18:15-17, and that he seemed to be fine with that.

Why did this improper action happen?  There seems to have been many factors.  Although I had been LCG’s most prolific supporter from its inception until I heard Dr. D. Winnail’s falling away sermon in July 2012, the fact that I raised biblical and COG objections to a doctrinal change did not set well with various ones in the LCG leadership. 

Sadly, neither Richard Ames nor Dr. Meredith discussed what my papers brought up on this matter with me in 2012, so this was distressing (I did, back in 2008 and/or 2009 discuss this matter with Dr. Meredith then, and at that time he concurred with my position on the falling away matter—not the change that he later accepted from Dr. Winnail). But the fact that he did not seem to take steps to properly dissuade Dr. Winnail in 2009 or later was disturbing. 

The December 28, 2012 Letter Was Received

Instead of discussing matters such as those with me (the last time I actually spoke to Dr. Meredith was March 23, 2012), I (and many others) received an email letter from him that he addressed to me.

Although I read Dr. Meredith’s 12/28/12 letter in December of 2012, it seems that the next time I read it in its entirety again was November of 2013.  Because of inquiries I have received from some interested in the truth, it seemed that this would be a good time to go through the entire letter.  (It may be worth noting that I did follow the steps of Matthew 18:15-17 with Dr. Meredith on at least one prior occasion concerning issues I had with his sinning against me, and consider this article also to be related to responsibilities under Matthew 18:17. Specifically, on the advice of 2 ministers who are or were on the LCG Council of Elder, I mailed Dr. Meredith a letter in June 2011 via US mail. As he did not follow through, I had a three plus hour meeting with Dr. Winnail about those subjects during the Feast of Tabernacles in 2011. Then had two meetings with Dr. Meredith, Richard Ames, and Dr. Winnail on December 15 & 16, 2011, which also included those subjects. Dr. Meredith promised to keep a variety of promises, then failed to do so, and I spent much of 2012 trying to resolve these with Dr. Meredith and asked various ministers to assist. After getting the 12/28/12 letter, I then "told it to the Church" via posts at the GCG News page at I also followed Matthew 18 regarding the 'falling away' matter.)

So, this article includes Dr. Meredith's letter in its entirety from Dr. Meredith, in multiple parts, followed by comments from me.

Dr. Meredith's letter begins with:

December 28, 2012

Dear Dr. Thiel,

I have carefully read and marked your paper to Dexter Wakefield on the “Chronology Related to Bob Thiel and Evangelistic and Related Matters.” Since this matter relates to your relationship with the Church as a whole and your entire future, I have decided to answer this matter myself.

That chronology to Dexter Wakefield and the two non-Charlotte-based LCG evangelists was sent because an LCG minister felt they should know these details.  I had sent versions of it to the Charlotte-based evangelists, including Dr. Meredith in the Summer of 2012.  I never asked for any answer (other than pleading with them to keep their promises to correct and update literature), only reminded them of some information that they already knew and added some information that they did not know. 

No response to what I sent to Dexter Wakefield was expected (though Dexter Wakefield emailed he got it, said he would discuss it with Dr. Meredith, etc.), and it was shocking when the denials came out on 12/28/12 in this letter from Dr. Meredith.  I was expecting to discuss matters like the falling away and final phase of the work—not getting a letter with the denials of facts that I knew were true.

The Letter Continues

Dr. Meredith continued with:

I have prayed that for your own good and your future reward in God’s Kingdom, you will sincerely ask God at this time to give you an open mind and willing heart to heed Almighty God’s instruction in Proverbs 15:31-33: “The ear that hears the rebukes of life will abide among the wise. He who disdains instruction despises his own soul, but he who heeds rebuke gets understanding. The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, and before honor is humility.”

Dr. Meredith was in my regular prayers back then and remains in them now. Furthermore, pretty much daily I pray that I will “trust in the Lord with all my heart and lean not to my own understanding, etc.” (Proverbs 3:5-6). But the letter is biased toward accusations and not instruction.

Dr. Meredith continued with:

Bob, I have personally liked you, wanted to encourage you and have tried to work with you for years. However, I have seen that you have had great difficulty in learning the lessons of deep humility that God wants all of us to learn. With very few exceptions, nearly everyone who knows you has clearly seen that—although you have a quick mind and great energy—you have nearly always thought very highly of yourself and of your own opinions.  

Sadly, it seems clear that Dr. Meredith wishes to blame me for many of the same things that Herbert Armstrong said he was guilty of. While there is little point rehashing those here, let me simply state that I do know what I personally had been thinking and I am severely disappointed that Dr. Meredith did what he did on 12/28/12.

In 2005, it was Dr. Meredith who appointed me to be an advisor to LCG on matters of doctrine and prophecy. He never told me before that 12/28/12 letter he felt I had any issues learning humility. 

If Dr. Meredith felt that I had a problem with deep humility, perhaps he should have brought that up to me over the years? But the fact is that he never did! 

How can he assert how I “nearly always thought” without either knowing that or ever saying so in the past? Since he does not claim any special powers to read my mind, hopefully those interested in the truth will realize that he was improperly insisting on conclusions and accusations based on what he wanted to believe, as oppose to that which is true.

Dr. Meredith now seems to be so accustomed to people who will compromise for the sake of his organizational unity, that he seems to have difficulty accepting that some people still, firmly believe, that the word of God should not be clearly compromised that they will not simply “go along to get along” as many leaders in LCG have been doing. It was not acceptable for me to be part of a church that declared it would essentially define itself by its “falling away” doctrinal change (details are in the article The Falling Away: The Bible and WCG Teachings). 

Dr. Meredith continued with:

You have offended or at least “bugged” dozens of Church members with this very self-important, pushy and “know-it-all” attitude and approach. So if I, as a minister of Christ for over 60 years and one old enough to be your father—can help you, I would certainly like to do this. For I love you as a fellow human being and one I have known and shared a number of hours with in talking over matters related to the Bible and our entire purpose here on this earth.

Again, it was Dr. Meredith who appointed me to be an advisor to LCG on matters of doctrine and prophecy and also made me promise against my objections that to tell him when I thought he was pulling punches. 

The fact that I took that promise seriously, and some were possibly offended because my word was kept is disappointing—but I tried hard not be intentionally offensive—and should not be accused for being “pushy” for keeping my word. Since I have been an advisor to Dr. Meredith for many years, one would have thought he would have discussed these concerns he decided to wait until 12/28/12 to condemn me for them.

Furthermore, those people who were telling Dr. Meredith that I have somehow bothered them, why did they not contact me? The Bible teaches to go to one’s brother if one feels he sinned against them (Matthew 18:15-17) or has some type of spiritual fault (Galatians 6:1-4) to attempt to help him. It does not say to slander him before a high level leader of a church when he is not around to defend himself—but that is what happened. And apparently many seem to think that is appropriate.

Instead trying to work with me, Dr. Meredith repeated these accusations without meeting and without telling me what specifically I may have been doing wrong. 

Consider also the following from the Bible:

13 For I hear the slander of many; Fear is on every side; While they take counsel together against me, They scheme to take away my life. 14 But as for me, I trust in You, O Lord; I say, "You are my God." (Psalms 31:13-14) 

Now as far as me supposedly being “very self-important” and “pushy” as Dr. Meredith is claiming, an incident in November and one in December 2012 should be brought up here as an example of how matters really tended to happen.

In November 2012, it was clear that LCG had a problem with another aspect of its literature. Although two Charlotte-based ministers (Gary Ehman and Wyatt Ciesielka) agreed with my conclusions, neither of them would bring this up to the evangelists there and they both told me to do it, so I did so. I would not characterize my response as a pushy approach, but the readers of this can draw their own conclusions. Here is what I sent on 11/29/12:

Dear Charlotte Evangelists:

Instead of now sending a paper on other aspects of the final phase of the work, after reviewing LCG’s Personal Correspondence department letter L187 on the days of Daniel 12, it seemed that perhaps aspects related to the 1260, 1290, and 1335 days of Daniel 12 should be addressed first. And mainly, in this paper, I will focus on how they tie in with Daniel 11:28-35. 

I copied Wyatt Ciesielka and Gary Ehman as I sent them a prior draft of this a bit earlier this month and have discussed this. So, I thought they both would like to see my revised recommendations. 

The main item from L187 that I hope to deal with is the following section: 

We may not know the exact time when the 1,335 days begin, since no one knows the day of Christ’s coming (Matthew 24:36; Acts 1:7). Apparently, however, at the beginning of the 1,335 days, the organized efforts of God’s Work to proclaim the Gospel to the world will end (Amos 8:11-12).

My proposal is to slightly modify it as follows:

Since no one knows the day of Christ’s coming (Matthew 24:36; Acts 1:7), we may not know in advance the exact time when the 1,335 days begin. Apparently, however, at the beginning of the 1,335 days (Daniel 11:28-30), a type of persecution will begin, and sometime prior to the start of the 1290 days, efforts of God’s Work to proclaim the Gospel will fulfill that portion of Matthew 24:14, and shortly thereafter there will be a famine of the word (Amos 8:11-12). 

This paper is intended to demonstrate why this could be a scripturally better wording (and it also brings up some other points). 

But summary of the rationale is as follows:

·        The 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 begins with the placing of the abomination and stopping of sacrifices in Daniel 11:31.

·        The 1260 days begins with the start of the Great Tribulation which is also when “the power of the holy people is completely shattered” per Daniel 12:7 (NKJV throughout unless otherwise noted). In the sequence in Daniel 11, this happens after Daniel 11:31 and by the time of Daniel 11:39.

·        Thus, the start of the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 must happen PRIOR to Daniel 11:31.

·        In Daniel chapter 11, the only two mentions related to “holy” prior to Daniel 11:31 are Daniel 11:28 and Daniel 11:30 and seem related to what is finalized in Daniel 12:7.

·        The 1335 days must begin with Daniel 11:28, 29, or 30.

·        Because of the sequence of Matthew 24 and Daniel 11, the proclamation portion of Matthew 24:14 seems to be fulfilled prior to Daniel 11:31 (which Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15).

·        Since the “people who understand shall instruct many” in Daniel 11:33, the famine of the word of Amos 8:11-12 would not seem to have truly happened prior to this.

·        Hence, since Daniel 11:33 is after Daniel 11:30, Amos 8:11-12 does not seem to be fulfilled until after the start of the 1335 days. Thus, I recommend the re-wording.

Should you wish to read more details on that and other aspects of Daniel 11, a paper on this is attached. And I may make some changes to some of those details in the future.

Best regards,

Bob Thiel

No direct response was received to the above email from the Charlotte evangelists. But was that paper "pushy" or somehow improper?

Furthermore, in order to keep a promise that I had made to Richard Ames on 10/08/12, on 12/14/2012, I sent the Charlotte evangelists the following in an email:

Dear Charlotte-based Evangelists:

After services on the Last Great Day, I promised Richard Ames a paper on various aspects of the final phase of the work.

Let's begin with some brief history. As you all probably are aware, by 1970, the old Worldwide Church of God estimated that it was regularly (as opposed to only cumulatively) reaching 150 million people through radio and television (Kelly R, Robinson J. Ambassador College Big Sandy Campus. Good News, July-August 1970, p. 4).

The next year, Herbert Armstrong wrote:

We now are reaching more than 150 million...Think of it! that is one in every twenty-three of all the people on earth, or one in every sixteen persons above age fourteen. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker Letter, May 28, 1971) 

Herbert Armstrong also met personally with world leaders in Europe, North America, Africa, India, China, Japan, Philippines, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and elsewhere to give a witness of the gospel to the world.

But that was the 20th century. So, what about the 21st century? 

On a cumulative basis, out of Arroyo Grande (mainly through the internet and radio interviews), millions have been reached. On a cumulative basis, out of Charlotte (mainly through television, printed publications, and the internet), multiple millions have been reached. 

But this, even including the growth that we both have had this year, is a mere fraction of Herbert W. Armstrong’s 1971 reach—and even if he overstated the reach, he reached even more in the 1980s than the early 1970s—which is still many times more people than are being reached now.

I, like the late Dibar Apartian did, believe that I could assist in not only working on aspects of the message, but in increasing the impact of the efforts in Charlotte through making aspects more interesting, more relevant, accurate, etc. More impact is needed in the 21st century than in the 20th century.

As you all are aware, it is the faithful in the Church of God that will finish the final phase of the work before (Matthew 24:14-15) and during (Revelation 11:3-14) the Great Tribulation and Day of the Lord. And, at least in my view, the final phase will also involve dealing with the King of the North and the ecumenical religion that will rise up (cf. Daniel 11:28-44; Revelation 13:4,8; 14:8-13; Matthew 24:14-15). This could be the “short work” that the late John Ogwyn felt that the Apostle Paul wrote about (Romans 9:28). Those involved in that phase should not be ignorant of Satan's devices (cf. Job 5:12; 2 Corinthians 2:11), which is one reason that knowledge of his plan is helpful.

But that does not mean that more impact cannot, or should not, happen before the final year or so before the Great Tribulation begins. 

About a decade ago, Dr. Meredith essentially agreed and stated to me that in the end it would not mainly be the message of the COG vs. the Protestants, but it would be the COG basically vs. the ecumenical religion that will rise up in the end that will likely (for a while) refer to itself as "Catholic." In 2005 during the Feast of Tabernacles in Clearwater Beach, after a private lunch, we and our wives met at his hotel room and I discussed various aspects of the final phase of the work with him.

Partially, because of this, a few weeks later I spoke with Dr. D. Winnail about me pursuing more formal education in theology and early Church history (and he encouraged me to do so), and then did so. With Evangelist Richard Ames, I discussed parts of the final phase of the work briefly on the Last Great Day in 2012, and he concurred with Dr. Meredith’s assessment about this phase would mainly consist of the COG vs. the ecumenical “Catholic” faith and less related to the Protestants.

This final phase of the work seemingly will consist of finishing proclamation of Christ's gospel of the kingdom as a witness along with persecution (Matthew 24:9-14), identifying what is happening in the world (specifically also in Europe, the Middle East, and the Anglo-descended nations), the rise and work of the two witnesses (Revelation 11:2-12) (which will likely overlap a few days of Matthew 24:14), the likely assistance to the two witnesses by the scattered flock (cf. Luke 9:2-6), the three angels' messages (Revelation 14:8-11; and other angelic proclamations), and the witness of those persecuted and martyred for Jesus (cf. Revelation 17:6). 

It remains my opinion that when the European King of the North is publicly identified, and the media picks this up, that this will cause the King of the North to become furious (cf. Daniel 11:28,30). This media attention will magnify at least parts of the message, and likely lead to the final fulfillment of Matthew 24:14. Probably prior to unleashing direct persecution, the King of the North and/or his allies are likely to go through COG literature to look for errors, contradictions, and anything else to discredit God’s Church. This will likely cause the way of truth to be blasphemed (cf. 2 Peter 2:1-2). Real steps should be taken to minimize this.

Now, I am not saying that any in Charlotte are intentionally trying to teach known error (even though I believe there are doctrinal errors coming from Charlotte). Yet, related to matters of history, Charlotte has intentionally sent out, for one example, church history booklets that contain known error (and still does so). This complicates, in my view, the final phase of the work. 

Those of us who have a love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10) need to place a very high priority on the accuracy of what is taught (cf. Acts 18:25-26), properly protect “the pearl of great price” (Matthew 13:45-46), and take away the stumbling block (Isaiah 57:14) of error (Jeremiah 23:24; Mark 12:24), which can cause unnecessary offense (Matthew 18:7).

The point of this email is to encourage LCG to make decisions and take more steps to correct various issues that I have brought up in the past in preparation for the final phase of the work, consider some of the ramifications of not doing so, and to consider how the final phase of the work will be accomplished.

A lot has happened in the past year. Yet, it still remains my view that if Charlotte and I can actually work closer together, that this could possibly be more effective in finishing the final phase of the work than our working further apart. If that is not God’s will, however, the final phase of the work will get done.

Please let me know if you want additional involvement or distance.

Best regards,

Bob Thiel

Was that "pushy" or somehow improper coming from an appointed advisor?

Yet, the response I got to that on 12/28/12 ignored all the specifics (although I did conclude that "distance" was what Charlotte chose), but instead contained a tirade of accusations, attacks, false witness, etc. about me. This is the truth for those still interested in it.

Continuing with Dr. Meredith’s letter:

However, Bob, your own remarkable vanity and “dreams of greatness” have greatly affected your ability to think clearly many times.

Over the last few years, many of us have noted that you have begun to think of yourself in terms that are not realistic.

Did God speak to Dr. Meredith to tell him this?  Since he did not make that claim, how does he know what I dream or my dreams are since we never discussed them {in this context}? How can he be so certain in his accusations?  And why would he spread this type of accusation without speaking with me?  What did I say that was not realistic, as this never was mentioned to me before? Was it the idea that more people need to be reached to fulfill Matthew 24:14 as mentioned in the email dated 12/14/12?

The Bible warns against spreading improper accusations, for "whoever spreads slander is a fool" (Proverbs 10:18).  Certainly Dr. Meredith is aware that one who appeared to be a leader, but was rejected by God (1 Samuel 16:6-7) accused David of a type of vanity (1 Samuel 17:28)—which David essentially denied (1 Samuel 17:29).  And while I am not perfect, I do deny the type of accusations that Dr. Meredith made in this 12/28/12 letter. 

Furthermore, while I did mention to Dr. Meredith and others in LCG about a dream from God, they never asked the details and did not know what was in it, and they were never given any hint of its content (until it was publicly released on November 8, 2013).  He and others should not be like Joseph’s brothers were when they condemned Joseph for having dreams from God (Genesis 37:5-11).  Like Joseph’s, over time, it was clear that one dream I had was coming to pass.  

Additionally, a woman in New Zealand had a dream after going to bed on 12/08/12 that was later at least partially fulfilled and included matters related to me (and it is a dream I did not learn about until the Feast of Tabernacles in 2013, and after I had unknowingly helped fulfill the dream she related to me.  God sometimes works in spiritual ways and apparently just because He may not have done so as directly through Dr. Meredith, that does not mean He does not do so with others (Acts 2:17-18; see also Dreams, the Bible, and the Continuing Church of God).

Dr. Meredith continued with:

Also, to abet your desires to be a “great one” in the Work, you have carefully and cleverly twisted and enlarged upon many things people have mentioned to you. 

Telling the truth about what happened is not twisting things.  Moses was essentially accused by leaders of being too presumptuous (Numbers 16:3) and Moses correctly accused his accusers themselves of the same (Numbers 16:7). I do not believe I literally have thought about wanting to be “a great one in the Work.”  Accusing me of that as well as supposedly cleverly twisting things is an improper accusation (cf. 2 Peter 2:10-11, KJV). 

Furthermore, Dr. Meredith himself essentially was accused of having desires to be a great one (by others in the past) could resentment of that have been a reason he decided to do what he did?  Another fact may be of interest here. I used to NOT have my name almost anywhere at the website. To this day, the three daily news post mostly simply state by COGwriter (and yes with a link, but before that there were no links, the article sometimes said by COGwriter or listed no author at allsee articles posted at the Church of God News page in 2007). The reason that I began to even put my name on the bottom of most of the regular articles at and even listing by COGwriter with a link was because Dr. Meredith told me in or around January 2008 to do so. I had resisted as I was not looking for personal attention or 'greatness' in the sight of men.

His letter against me shows that despite having many opportunities to deal with his own issues, Dr. Meredith became a judge and false accuser of the brethren, which in my view, disqualifies him from heading a church with the Philadelphia mantle.  He published conclusions and accusations without ever discussing this with me, in violation of Matthew 18:15-17 and Galatians 6:1-4 as well as the ninth commandment against bearing false witness (Exodus 20:16). Nor as of the date that I am writing this has he indicated any desire to repent of what he has done to my reputation, etc.

Dr. Meredith continued with:

Throughout this entire “chronology” paper you have done this over and over. 

My chronology told the documented truth—it contains specific dates and names.  This letter against me is over and over again making accusations, mainly without specifics, and coming to conclusions that a humble Christian leader would not have come to and distributed the way Dr. Meredith did.

Dr. Meredith continued with:

Recently, I had a meeting with Messrs. Ames, Winnail, Wakefield and my son, Jim, to discuss this paper you sent to Mr. Wakefield (and now I see you have also sent it to Messrs. Tyler and Weston). All of us in the meeting except Mr. Wakefield have gotten to know you somewhat and have heard many others express concern about your egotistical ideas that you believe you are a prophet or one of the two witnesses. I will not take the time to argue about every single point you bring up in your paper; that is not the important matter. I will just say that over and over you subtly twist, enlarge upon or exaggerate many of the things you think you heard—some of which you may have “partially heard” but enlarged upon in your own mind and received in a way that was not intended by the one doing the speaking.

It was Dr. Meredith who called and told me that God may consider me to be a prophet, thus calling this my egotistical idea is wrong. Will he not take proper responsibility for what he has said about this?

As far as his son goes, Dr. Meredith told me years prior to ignore the views that his son Jim had against me.   Jim wanted shut down years ago and Dr. Meredith did not agree with his son Jim then. The fact that Jim (who is also a big American football fan) advised his father to go against me in this letter is no surprise.  My paper did not exaggerate the facts (though it is true that some do not remember what they said and truly some do not realize the relevance of some statements that they made)

As far as claiming to be one of the two witnesses, while one or more biblical and Catholic prophecies may point to me that way, I have not made that claim, and Dr. Meredith should have known that. He and I even discussed it in December 2011 and he did not launch any attack then.  The fact is that even Dr. D. Winnail told me during the Feast of Tabernacles in 2011 that he once thought he might be one of the two witnesses. So, is Dr. Winnail getting publicly attacked by Dr. Meredith for that?

Furthermore, the fact is that Dr. Meredith seemed to support what I said about the two witnesses before (we had a private lunch with only he, myself, my wife Joyce, and our son David where we discussed it at the Feast of Tabernacles in Panama City, Florida in 2011). Thus, this should indicate that my position about possibly being one is not twisting anything.  God Himself will choose who the two witnesses are and even if I may be a candidate, I have not appointed myself one (information on them is in the article Who Are The Two Witnesses?).

Does God Answer Prayer or Lead by His Spirit?

Dr. Meredith continued with:

Near the very beginning of your paper you try to quote Gary Ehman as saying that God has used you to “prepare the Church” and then you go way beyond what Mr. Ehman intended to say.

That is Dr. Meredith’s view, but this happened after I prayed about something happening like this in Charlotte back then and it did (and Gary Ehman said some version of this to me more than once).  God does answer prayers and sometimes people do not always understand how He does so.

Dr. Meredith continued with:

Then, you did the same thing relating to the January 6, 2000 incident about me saying, “That is you” in relation to Roman Catholic prophecies.

This happened after I prayed about something happening like this in Charlotte back then and it did (Dr. Meredith has the year wrong, it should have been 2007).  God does answer prayers and sometimes people do not always understand how He does so. The Bible shows that even the High Priest said something that he did not intend to be understood as literal as it was and it was coming from God (John 11:49-52). Dr. Meredith also did not condemn my explanation and use of Catholic prophecies then

Dr. Meredith continued with:

Then, you indicate that you told Davy Crockett that I was going to be “hit” with something bad to teach me a lesson. Then, you indicate that the “ministroke” I had in September 2008 was in fulfillment of that prophecy. Bob, I never knew that you had given such a prophecy and never felt that this min-stroke I had at age 78 was any sort of “fulfillment” of anything you had ever said!

Now I never previously told Dr. Meredith this in an effort to not offend him and hopefully to work better with him.  I did, however, specifically discuss this with Davy Crockett on more than one occasion. 

Furthermore, Dr. Meredith admitted to me about a month after the stroke that he felt that God was trying to correct him. At that time I tried to explain to Dr. Meredith some areas that perhaps he needed to correct and he agreed. Thus, since Dr. Meredith (at that time) seemed to have gotten the message (though he later did not do all he indicated to me that he would) there seemed to be no needed reason to bring this detail up to him then.

Dr. Meredith continued with:

Bob, do you really believe that you “prophesied” to my having a stroke, and that it was a direct result of my not heeding correction from you?

I believe I was led by God’s Spirit to conclude and state what I did to Davy Crockett. The Bible teaches "prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21). Many did not believe Jesus, despite what He said and did (John 10:25).  By the date of this letter, Dr. Meredith was also aware of many other statements that I made that came to pass as we discussed them in meetings in December 2011. He also had lots of confirmation of my prophetic insights by 12/28/12. Does Dr. Meredith really believe that all of this was simply coincidental? Since he has offered no proof that this was not from God, why will he not accept it?

Now to answer the second part of his question above, it was not because of Dr. Meredith not heeding correction from me per se that he had the stroke, but I believe that his first ministroke (and subsequent ones) was the result of him not keeping his word and failing to take actions that he told me he would and/or should take.

A Haughty Spirit Goes Before a Fall

Dr. Meredith continued with:

I strongly suggest you consider Proverbs 16:18, “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.”

Since Dr. Meredith has had a lot befall him, he perhaps should consider how Proverbs 16:18 and passages in Isaiah 22 may apply to him? 

As far as a fall, it is LCG that, internet-wise, seems to have had a relative popularity fall since I left eleven months ago.  

Although some in LCG prefer to believe their internet impact is higher than it is, I like to use a source such as Alexa to give a relative impact on how websites compare to the multiple millions of sites out there. One page suggested that there are about 500,000,000 websites and uses a rolling three months impact to rank popularity.  Here are some comments about Alexa's rankings:

Alexa Rank Checker is one of the most accurate and freely available tools to find out how well your site ranks up against millions of other sites on the Web. viewed 10/31/13

The lower the number of an Alexa rating the greater the impact. For example, has an Alexa ranking of 1, meaning it is the most popular website in the world, and has an Alexa ranking of 2, meaning that it is the second most popular website in the world according to Alexa (number 3 is As of 2013, Alexa provides traffic data, global rankings and other information on 30 million websites.

Here is the Alexa ranked popularity of the main websites of CCOG and LCG that were displayed by Alexa 11/27/13:

1. (Continuing Church of God) 127,571

2. (Living Church of God) 352,767

3. (Living Church of God) 361,007

4. (Continuing Church of God) 660,347

What the above clearly does show is that despite all the money and effort that LCG has put into its internet presence, the website is much, much, more popular than any official LCG website. And while Alexa rankings frequently change (so COGwriter may drop for a time), those who thought that the impact of the Continuing Church of God on the internet and elsewhere to fulfill Matthew 24:14 would be similar to all the other actual COG groups that left LCG have been proven to have been in error. 

While prior to the formation of the Continuing Church of God, the sometimes was slightly more popular via Alexa rankings than one or both of LCG’s major websites, it never was this significantly more popular like this until well after my departure from LCG.  And while Alexa rankings will vary (and perhaps LCG will spend even more money to affect this and try to appear to be more popular), hopefully it shows that the Continuing Church of God has had significant effectiveness in this media.

It is LCG that has had a fall since my departure as its Alexa ranking used to be in the two hundred thousands, not three hundred thousands, as was

More Denials of Statements Made

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Then your letter goes to October 3, 2008 where you say that I said, “God may consider you to be a prophet.” Bob, as you well know, I had my stroke in September 2008 and was still very weak and disoriented as a result of it. That you would take anything that I said in that time period and try to use it is not right. I do not ever remember saying anything like that, and I can assure you that I have never thought you might be a prophet!

That last statement is blatantly false.  Dr. Meredith told me this on more than one occasion and we discussed itand at least two other LCG evangelists confirmed this with me personally—and the three Charlotte evangelists and I even all discussed it together in December 2011. Again, remember that it was Dr. Meredith who telephoned me on October 3, 2008 to tell me that God may consider me to be a prophet.  Instead of considering that God was perhaps revealing something to him, Dr. Meredith years later is attempting to say it was not the case.  How can one who is basically claiming memory lapses boldly insist he did not think something?

Furthermore, on October 3, 2008 Dr. Meredith and I had an extensive telephone conversation related to thisit was not just some random statement he made.  For him to try to say he never thought I may be a prophet is wrong.  He may no longer remember (and does have provable memory lapses), but for him to deny it as he did, he is absolutely bearing false witness, though he probably does not see it that way.  Of course, he NEVER should have sent this letter out with false information and AT LEAST should have spoken to me about his denials before he published them.  He had letters/emails from me for years related to the prophet matter.  Furthermore he also received the chronology he objected to here for at least five months before he issued this letter of his.

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

But if I did make some kind of statement in this regard, I was simply trying to encourage you to go on and grow in your understanding of the Bible and willingness to serve.

There was no IF, Dr. Meredith said it—and he and I discussed it extensively. I also met with Dr. J. Fall and Dibar Apartian about it within a week or two of this happening during the Feast of Tabernacles in Evian, France in 2008. There is no IF. Dr. Fall should recall this for any who may wish to verify this with him.

Furthermore, how often has the top leader of a COG told a member that God may consider him to be a prophet? Plus, it was Dr. Meredith called me to tell me this—I was not at the time discouraged about anything that I can recall that would make him feel he had to say this to “encourage” me. Dr. Meredith’s 12/28/12 response against me is sad. He should have let people believe the truth instead of denying it as he did.

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Then you go to January 2009 where you say I told you that if I was raised to the office of apostle, I was “considering ordaining Bob Thiel as a prophet.” That, Bob, is simply not true! For I have never, at any time—considered ordaining you as a prophet.

Dr. Meredith who earlier faulted his ministroke for stating that God may consider me to be a prophet here is now flatly denying that he said something that he said.  What I said was and is true.  He should consider that perhaps his memory is faulty or he later chose to forget something he said. 

I wrote down what he said then in my notes—there is no doubt that he said what I said he did.  I had found his comment disturbing at the time, because his relative 'rank' should have had no bearing on what office I should possibly be ordained tothat is not proper church governance and ignores how God (and not an evangelist) may choose to work.  The reality is that Dr. Meredith realized that prophets came ahead of evangelists in scriptures like Ephesians 4:11, which affected his actions in a non-biblical way. Thus, this really got me wondering about his desire to hold on to power as opposed to doing what was best for the work of God.

Additionally, all should consider that nowhere has Dr. Meredith truly attempted to disprove that I am or could be a prophet. He did not use the Bible nor the understandings of that the old Radio and old Worldwide Church of God had on this (those interested in more details should check out the article How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God). Denials by him of what he said and his apparent disbelief of facts and how God sometimes answers prayers are not proof.

Condemning Use of Catholic Prophecies is Hypocritical

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

This is not because I don’t “like” you, but rather because I have understood for years your tendency to bring in “odd” or “Catholic prophesies” or put unusual twists on scripture in such a way that no true prophet of God would ever do.

This letter certainly suggests that Dr. Meredith really did not like me or care what he might do to damage my reputation. It should also be understood that I do meet the standards that Dr. Meredith himself and others in the old WCG said the Bible taught (for details, please see How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God).

If, as he has written, the above is something that Dr. Meredith understood for years, why would he tell me that God may consider me to be a prophet and not object to me about my use of Catholic and Islamic prophecies in prior years? Why would he a year earlier have told me to continue to do the types of writings and other works I was doing? 

The Apostle Paul considered that he was a prophet (1 Corinthians 13:9), and he cited non-biblical, pagan, prophecies/sources, etc. (Acts 17:18-30) as he tried to reach all (1 Corinthians 9:19-22)—should this have disqualified him according to what Dr. Meredith seemingly implied? The Apostle Paul also felt the need to defend himself against a variety of charges from people who were in the Church of God (2 Corinthians 11:5,16-33; 10:10-16; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:1; 1 Timothy 1:1).

Furthermore, various prophets, such as Micaiah (1 Kings 22:10-28) and Jeremiah (Jeremiah 28:1-17) explained how pagan prophecies impacted God's prophecies. And what I have tried to do is follow Paul, Micaiah, Jeremiah, and others who have done this.

Please also consider the following facts:

1) Dr. Meredith told me in 2009 that he was praying for the success of my book 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect. Dibar Apartian read the book at the time and also approved its content. That particular book had many of the exact same Catholic and Muslim prophecies that were also in the Barack Obama and the Destruction of the United States book.

Chapter 8 of 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect was titled Barack Obama, Islam, and the End of America. Chapter 8 of 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect had the same photo of US President Barack Obama that was on the front cover Barack Obama and the Destruction of the United States book combined with the fire that was shown on the cover on my 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect book.  Yet on September 8, 2012, members in the Living Church of God were read at services a letter from Dr. Meredith condemning my new book Barack Obama and the Destruction of the United States by stating it had “much of which we do not agree with.”  No doctrinal errors in that book were ever brought up to me by Charlotte.

2) All of the three Charlotte-based evangelists in the Living Church of God (and others in that church) cite Catholic and Muslim prophecies themselves. LCG literature contains references to the prophecies of Catholic Bishop Malachy and this has happened even after 'condemning' me for doing so. For one example, see the cover article by Dr. D. Winnail in May-June 2013 edition of Tomorrow's World magazine titled Francis I: The Final Pope? It referred to the Malachy prophecies. Others have as well (e.g. The pope resigns: what’s next? LCG Commentary, February 15, 2013).

Furthermore not including the weekly updates, LCG has mentioned the Imam Mahdi in at least nine articles (for one example, see Middle East events and Muslim prophecy, Commentary, April 06, 2011) and one booklet. Here is a quote from a booklet by Dr. Meredith:

Indeed, a coming "Mahdi" whose arrival Muslims are expecting—in Bible prophecy known as the "King of the South" (Daniel 11:40–45)—will soon arise and have a dramatic impact on world events. This powerful Muslim religious leader will unite many of the more than one billion Muslims. He will pose a genuine threat to the coming European Empire, which will have to crush that threat in order to continue exploiting Middle Eastern oil to further its military ambitions. (Meredith RC. Prophecy Fulfilled: God's Hand in World Affairs. LCG booklet)

The Imam Mahdi is a person specifically from Shi-ite Muslim prophecy.

LCG has also referred to other non-biblical prophecies in a variety of its materials.

3) Back in 2009 to encourage me to use Catholic prophecies, evangelist Richard Ames told me that the old Radio Church of God had used Catholic prophecies the same way that I had used them. He then had William Bowmer give me a copy of a 1964 Good News article by the late David Jon Hill that did so titled Will You Be Deceived by Antichrist? The old Radio Church of God looked at and used such prophecies. Furthermore, on December 16, 2011Richard Ames publicly prayed, with “amen” concurrence from Dr. Meredith and Dr. Winnail, that I would continue to do the type of work that I had been doingand that work included the frequent references to these non-biblical prophecies as a means to reach and/or interest those without a Church of God background. It was not right for Dr. Meredith to give “amen” concurrence if for years he had problems with what I was doing.  People should ask themselves why he clearly changed?

4) Probably the reason for the condemnation of Catholic prophecies was that several leaders in Charlotte understood that at least one of those prophecies seemed to point to me personally. And if people considered that any Catholic prophecies could be true, this could interfere with certain leaders' visions for the future of LCG. Thus, by condemning my use of them, some apparently hoped that various ones would not consider that one or more could potentially be correct. Because if so, that would have been further confirmation that my prophetic ‘double-portion’ anointing was valid. Of course, I have not ever claimed that any should rely on non-biblical prophecies, only that they should be considered in the light of biblical prophecy, etc. But this was seemingly “too close for comfort” for some in September-December 2012.

5) In his letter to me of September 13, 2013, Dr. Meredith admitted that I did not treat non-biblical prophecies the same as biblical ones as he wrote, “I know you don’t say it that way.” Hence, I was somewhat condemned for something that Dr. Meredith realized that I had not done. Yet, he and others condemned me. And others went along with it, misunderstanding that proper church governance does not violate the command against false witness.

Condemning me for the properly citing of non-biblical prophecies is wrong and hypocritical. But that is what LCG did. In the past, the late Herbert W. Armstrong specifically objected to Dr. Meredith's 'hypocrisy'which is something to still consider today.

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

You are probably correct in your statement that in the Spring/Summer of 2009 I may have told you that I was “praying for the success” of your prophetic book. For I have tried to be your friend and encourage you without giving you delusions of “grandeur.”

Probably correct?  No, that was and is completely accurate—Dr. Meredith told me that he was praying for the success of that 2012 book and I told many others afterwards that Dr. Meredith said that. The 2012 book was filled with biblical, Catholic, Islamic, and other predictions. 

If I was doing something inappropriately ‘odd’ then Dr. Meredith should have raised objections, and  not stated he was praying for book distribution success.  A faithful friend tries to talk to one's friend privately, and does not attempt to publicly libel him (cf. Proverbs 11:31).

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

However, it appears that any encouraging thing that I or most anyone else has told you seems to be adding to this “delusions of grandeur” feeling you have about yourself.

The “delusions of grandeur” accusation is false. Dr. Meredith  should be careful about his “delusions of grandeur” and other accusations.  He NEVER mentioned anything like this to me personally in violation of Matthew 18 as well as in violation of Galatians 6.  Furthermore, he had no right to make this letter to me public, which he and others did, also in violation of Matthew 18.

Dibar Apartian, Richard Ames, and Douglas Winnail

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Then, in your paper, you go on to describe your meeting with me in Panama City and later with Dibar Apartian who, you say, “believed” then that God had a top prophetic role for Bob Thiel. However, all of us who knew Mr. Apartian at that time and have talked to him many times about these matters know that Mr. Apartian did not think of you as a prophet. You can easily ascertain that by talking to Mrs. Apartian, Mr. Ames, Dr. Winnail and all of us.

I had many conversations with Dibar Apartian and know what he said to me, including that he told me that in meetings you said that I may/seem to be a prophet. He also told me that he suspected that I "was the one," meaning the one to lead the work in the endand that came from Dibar Apartian, not me. Dibar Apartian also told me that he intended to discuss more of this with Dr. Meredith, then shortly before he died he indicated to me that he never did. I should probably add that I also had some conversations of a more limited nature with his wife and will simply say Dr. Meredith would not like me to post all that I have learned from Dibar and Shirley Apartian and that I have not borne false witness. 

Richard Ames, of course, is the one who prayed that I would continue to do all the type of work I was doing on December 16, 2011, and he had plenty of information on the prophet matter then as it was specifically brought up in the meeting we all had that day as well as one the day before. 

Dr. Winnail made certain statements to me that he absolutely and completely made that are in the posted chronology. Sadly, there were some statements which he later denied, hence there is little point discussing those with him again. But even he admitted in an email to me dated January 7, 2013 concerning myself and the Charlotte-based evangelists, “When we made comments to you that ‘you may be a prophet’ (and that could include some point in the future) that was to be kind to you.” An odd thing for him to write if the three Charlotte evangelists had not done it.

More Accusations and Inaccurate Portrayals

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Bob, since you have this powerful feeling of “greatness” you often “read into” what anyone says. This kind of idea of you being a prophet that is pounding away in the back of your mind is once again causing you to twist your own memory of what is said by others.

Notice again the accusation based upon assumptions and improper conclusions on Dr. Meredith’s part. Is he “reading into” things himself?  Most of the times he and I actually discussed me possibly being a prophet, he seemed to be the one to bring it up. So, to later suggest that this was a product of my imagination, “pounding away in the back of my mind,” etc. is improper. 

Those who accept the validity of the dream that Fesilafai Fiso Leaana of New Zealand reported she had, would, of course, realize that there was Divine confirmation that this was not my imagination. Jesus and the Apostle Paul both taught, "by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established" (Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1).

Dr. Meredith’s saying that my memory twisted things is improper. Also recall he is the one who is claiming that he should not be responsible for all that he said. The reality is that I did write down notes related to some of these matters at the time, hence this was not a matter of me twisting anything.

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Later in the paper, you talk about Dr. Fall and Gary Ehman being approached by you about your desire to “have hands laid upon you” in order to ask for healing and for wisdom before meeting with evangelists here at Headquarters. As you point out, they did not agree to do so.

No, that is not at all the case.  I never asked Dr. Fall (who was then in California) and only intended to ask Gary Ehman (who was in Charlotte).  The fact that Gary Ehman was ill that morning and not in to do it does not mean that he refused—he never refused as he was never asked.  This is yet another factually false claim by Dr. Meredith (and/or whoever probably helped him write this).

Attacking Gaylyn Bonjour's French Heritage

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Then on December 15, 2011 you went to Gaylyn Bonjour and asked him to anoint you for an apparent physical ailment, but also asked him to ask God to give you wisdom in the upcoming meetings with the HQ Evangelists. He agreed to do this and, as is his normal approach—he can be emotional and heartfelt about the matter and asked God to grant you a “double-portion of His Holy Spirit.” Others have told me that, being partly of French ancestry, Mr. Bonjour is often emotional and very heartfelt when he anoints anyone.

At least Dr. Meredith recognizes that Gaylyn Bonjour did, in fact, ask God to grant me a double-portion of the Holy Spirit. It should be clear to all interested in the truth that this did indeed happen.

Gaylyn Bonjour told me that he never asked God to grant anyone else a double-portion of His Spirit, and he has anointed many people.  Suggesting that he erred because of his French ancestry is an affront to what happened as well as to the French.

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Mr. Bonjour has confirmed he in no way was intending to ask God to make you a prophet! Yet, because of your vivid imagination and fervent desire to exalt yourself to that role, you “took it” that way—as you do so with many other things.

If Dr. Meredith considered that Gaylyn Bonjour was an emotionally out-of-control minister, why would he have allowed him to remain a minister? Should Dr. Meredith at least have had someone correct Gaylyn Bonjour about this in the past? Well, that never happened, and I confirmed that it did not when Gaylyn Bonjour and I discussed it earlier this month. 

Thus, this line of ‘reasoning’ also is not biblically-proper as it seems to be an affront against Gaylyn Bonjour for carrying out ministerial duties. Now it is true that to anoint me as a prophet was not Gaylyn Bonjour’s intent, yet Gaylyn and I discussed this in detail—and he brought up the passing of the mantle to me when we discussed it. 

All may wish to recall that it was also not Isaac's intent to provide a blessing to Jacob--actually Isaac specifically did not want to do it, but that is what he didand God honored that even though Jacob was being deceptive (Genesis 27:6-35). Unlike Jacob, I was not being deceptive. And Gaylyn Bonjour did understand the ramifications of what he stated that God's Spirit may have led him to do.

In addition to discussing this anointing with Dr. Meredith on March 23, 2012, I sent him some version of the following in July 2012:

On the morning of December 15, 2011, upon arriving at the Charlotte HQ of LCG, I asked to meet with Gary Ehman as I wanted to get anointed for some non-debilitating matters as well as to ask him to pray that I be granted wisdom for my meetings with the HQ evangelists.  But Gary Ehman was not in.  So instead, I asked to meet with Gaylyn Bonjour (with whom I never had any discussions prior about me possibly being some type of prophet).  I asked Gaylyn Bonjour if he would do the anointing and pray that God would grant me wisdom for the meetings.  He agreed.  But while laying hands upon me, Gaylyn Bonjour also happened (it was not planned nor did I say anything to encourage this) to ask God to grant me a “double-portion” of His Holy Spirit and anointed me with oil.  Other than him apparently mentioning Elijah and/or the ‘mantle”, I did not then have time to discuss what this might mean with Gaylyn Bonjour as Monica Cormier came to the door of Gaylyn’s office for me to immediately attend a meeting with the Charlotte evangelists.

On Sunday 12/18/11 night at a family wedding reception, without discussing the matter, Bob Thiel stared at Gaylyn Bonjour for a few moments, without saying anything and then asked, “Do you have any idea of what you may have accidently done?”  Gaylyn Bonjour said, “Yes, I think so.”

The following Monday morning was Bob Thiel's first opportunity to speak with Gaylyn Bonjour privately for more details about the anointing.  Bob Thiel asked him if it was his practice to pray that God grant a double-portion of His Spirit to people that he anoints, he said, no he had never done that for an individual before.  Bob Thiel asked him if he had any idea of what he may have been inadvertently led by God to do, and he said yes.  Gaylyn Bonjour also said that the only “double-portion” he recalled from the Bible was when Elisha became the replacement prophet and ecclesiastical leader for Elijah (2 Kings 2:9)—Bob Thiel told him then that this was his recollection as well.  Notice it was Gaylyn Bonjour, and not Bob Thiel, who first stated this as a conclusion.

In March 2012, it seemed time to mention the 12/15/11 anointing and what Bob Thiel had tried to tell him about his wife to Dr. Meredith and he was able to do so in telephone conversation.  Yet, first Bob Thiel called Gaylyn Bonjour to let him know that someone may end up talking with him about the anointing.  Gaylyn Bonjour was fine with that and also said that he felt that the “double-portion” was related to “the passing of the mantle.”  This gave Bob Thiel a lot of pause to consider since that time—and it came from Gaylyn Bonjour.

Gaylyn Bonjour did what he did after I prayed about this and when someone I intended to see was not available. Dr. Meredith does not seem to wish to see the possible hand of God in this. God does not always work as leader expect--Isaac had a plan, but God changed his. Something similar happened on 12/15/2011.

Mrs. Meredith's Stage Four Cancer Diagnosis

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Then you go on to somehow try to indicate that you had special knowledge about how my wife was to be “hit hard with something.” Consequently when it was announced in January that she had come down with cancer, you deluded yourself into believing that you had somehow prophesied this to happen. Nothing could be further from the truth! She had not been feeling well for months, and the stage four diagnosis indicated that this cancer had been growing inside her body for many months. Constantly, in your paper, you seem to be “reading into” events that indicate you were given something special by God about such matters.

The fact is that the diagnosis came the month after I tried to tell Dr. Meredith about this type of thing.  People can be feeling ill and only have a relatively minor ailment.  While he and others were aware of Mrs. Meredith’s basic health status, I was not privy to that, and thus, yes, believe I was led to the conclusion I did by the Holy Spirit.  It is not ‘reading’ anything wrong when I felt that Mrs. Meredith was about to be struck with something, tried to tell Dr. Meredith about it, and a few weeks later her diagnosis came out.  How Dr. Meredith can so vehemently deny what happened is disappointing.

Anointing and Who is Fixated?

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Then, you indicate that you feel that “only a member of the eldership is required to anoint one as a prophet” and use 1 Timothy 4:14 as a proof text. Bob, 1 Timothy 4:14 is clearly, in context, talking about the gift of God’s Holy Spirit given to Timothy as a Christian—not the office of a prophet. Certainly, all of us have the laying on of hands by the eldership after baptism to receive God’s Spirit. But this Scripture is not talking about becoming a prophet, but receiving God’s Spirit to help Timothy, “be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity” (v.12).

All it takes to be anointed a prophet is for someone that God leads to do the anointing. And normally, that would be expected to be a minister of some sort. Dr. Meredith should know this.

Yet, when I discussed this with him on March 23, 2012, Dr. Meredith seemed to act like God would have directly used him, then later he indicated that one should be an evangelist or regional pastor to do this type of anointing—but no verse in the Bible supports this.

Dr. Meredith's current interpretation of 1 Timothy 4:14 differs from that of the old Radio Church of God. When Dr. Meredith was a Senior Editor for its Good News magazine, the following was published:

God gives special gifts-special powers of His Spirit-to those who are set apart by the laying on of hands. Remember that it was by the laying on of hands that Timothy received the added ability, called “prophecy” by the King James translators...(I Tim. 4:14 and II Tim. 1:6)... This spiritual gift of inspired preaching was conferred to Timothy by the laying on of hands... This proof-in-action of your willingness to submit to God’s human representative-God’s minister -for anointing and the laying on of hands is “acting out” your willingness to accept the spiritual Government of Almighty God Himself over your physical life (Ellis, William H. Why We Have the Laying on of Hands Ceremony. Good News. April-May 1965, pp. 11, 14,15)

Presumably he read and approved of the content of that article decades ago. It is sad that Dr. Meredith decided to change on this point in his 12/28/12 letter (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God).

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

By “reading into” things that others tell you the idea that you might be a prophet, you have deceived yourselfwillingly of course—so that your mind is now virtually “fixated” on the idea that you, are a “prophet” of God.

Actually, no that is more false witness. Furthermore, please consider that Dr. Meredith has not provided any biblical or other evidence that truly disputes me having a prophetic role.  

I am not fixated on the idea about being some type of a prophet of God. It is more that I decided I had no choice but to accept the anointing that God had done in answer to prayer. And after reading this letter from Dr. Meredith, I concluded that since there was no possible way that he could have the Philadelphia mantle, and that because of my ‘double-portion’ anointing, that there was no option for me other than to lead the formation of the Continuing Church of God.

It seems more like Dr. Meredith is fixated on the prophetic anointing as that would suggest that he would be subject to listening and keeping his promises to such a one. Additionally, promises should be kept, even to the least of the people (cf. Matthew 25:40,45), as "office" should not be a factor. Various ones (including one who, without being asked, on November 22, 2013) have communicated that Dr. Meredith did not keep various promises to them.

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

However, what you utterly fail to recognize is that a true prophet of God—in God’s New Testament times—has always been clearly recognized as such by the ministry already in high offices in God’s Church; who are shown by Christ—the living Head of the Church that this person is in that office. Such an individual has always been cooperative with those doing the Work and has never “set himself up” all on his own to contradict, to compete, or to be a “lone wolf out there” doing his own thing to exalt himself.

Actually, the New Testament is pretty clear that the top religious leaders of Jesus’ day did not accept Him nor did they accept Paul, etc.  Even Christian leaders did not wish to accept Paul.  Furthermore, Jesus was clear that God’s people (including religious leaders) often did not recognize God’s prophets (Matthew 23:29-37, 11:7-19; Luke 11:47-51).  This not something that I feel ‘exalted’ by either. (As far as being a true prophet, a related article would be How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God.)

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Although you think you are not like “Ron Weinland” or others who have done this kind of thing, your present statements and writings indicate that that is exactly what you are becoming. Therefore, as the one Christ Himself has put in the office of Presiding Evangelist and leading minister in the Church of God doing the Work of God at this time, I want to tell you, in love, that you need to realize you are not a prophet, nor are you recognized as such by the Church or by Christ’s true ministry whom He has set in authority in His Church. You need to humble yourself and recognize that authority for your own good. If you end up “fighting” or “competing” with the Work of the living God, God will deal with you and He will humble you in ways that we do not now fully understand. For “whom God loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives” (Hebrews 12:6).

At my age and in my office for so many years, Bob, I can sincerely tell you that I have no feelings of hate or competition with you. I simply want to help you “wake up” before it is too late. I pray that God will help you to understand and heed what I am now telling you as a servant of Jesus Christ who has faithfully served Him full time for over 60 years. Please be willing to listen and to heed what I am saying in the name of Jesus Christ!

I am not like Ron Weinland (see also Concerns About Ronald Weinland's Church of God-Preparing for the Kingdom of God). One who is bearing false witness and making accusations in a letter like this is not one I can accept is then saying this “in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Dr. Meredith seems to have convinced himself that he is speaking for Jesus, but he is not the ‘vicar of Christ’ and should have been humble enough to accept correction given to him in love related to his broken promises, as well as to not have attacked me in violation of Jesus’ words in Matthew 18:15-17. The Bible shows that God does remove and replace religious leaders He has used once He determined they did not have the character or mental/emotional ability to continue to lead (cf. 1 Kings 19:13-18 and 2 Kings 2:9-13; Isaiah 22:15-25). Though in various sermons, Dr. Meredith has made statements denying that. 

Furthermore, my discussions over the years with the Apartians made it clear to me that Dibar Apartian did not believe that Dr. Meredith was "put in the office of Presiding Evangelist" by "Christ Himself."  He also clearly said that Dr. Meredith should be told when he was wrong.  Dibar Apartian repeatedly told me to remind Dr. Meredith of his broken promises, improper priorities, etc.  Dr. Meredith seems fixated on his views of his position. Dr. Meredith may also wish to consider ways that perhaps he has been humbled recently.

Asks if Dr. Thiel is With or Not With LCG

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

Bob, you made the statement in your letter, “…his then pastor (Dr. Fall)…” indicating that you may no longer consider yourself a member of the Living Church of God. If that is not the case, and if you are willing to repent, to listen and take correction, and continue to be a part of the Living Church of God, I do ask you, in Jesus’ name to let us know. If you are unwilling to heed the loving correction given in this letter, and insist on cleaving to your view of yourself as a “prophet”, let us know this also and we will understand that you have chosen to trod a different path separate from the Living Church of God. At least you can be open and honest about this.

This 12/28/12 letter was not loving correction. It was widely distributed by Dr. Meredith in some attempt to discredit methat is not how one dishes out loving correction. It remains my hope and prayer that he will admit his errors here and repent.

My response to this letter on December 28, 2012 was to read it, pray about, and call Dr. Jeff Fall.  I told Dr. Fall that the content was wrong and that it bore false witness and that I could not be part of the Living Church of God.  Then, I quickly responded to Dr. Meredith’s request about my status that same day with an email as follows:

Dear Dr. Meredith:

Got your letter.

While you are entitled to your own opinions about my vanity, etc. (it is God who judges), I vehemently deny many of the accusations you made against me.

Your denying comments, about what you told me personally about being a prophet, are badly mistaken.  I have not born false witness. In fact, I had written notes throughout the years and that was what was in the chronology.  Perhaps there is a lot that you do not remember?

Anyway, it is abundantly clear to me that the mantle is no longer in Charlotte.  And the letter was just one more confirmation.  So, yes, I am no longer part of LCG, and yes, I called Dr. Fall immediately after getting your letter to tell him.

In the future, hopefully, you will not allow others to spread improper or inaccurate information about me.

To the pure, all things are pure.


Bob Thiel 

Despite my request that he not allow others to spread improper and inaccurate information about me, he sent what he sent to me to dozens or more who ultimately spread it further.  As he requested, I was upfront and honest about where I stood.

Dr. Meredith's letter continued with:

As the physical leader of God’s Church, I have an obligation to protect the brethren from wolves, and I take this responsibility seriously. If you turn aside and try to draw others to follow you down this dangerous path, we will have to do everything we can to protect God’s people.

Dr. Meredith is a physical leader of a Church of God group which I do not believe can hold the Philadelphia mantle.  Since he does not and cannot have the mantle (nor do his top leaders), his position does not make him “the physical leader of God’s Church.”  

12/28/12 Letter Concludes

Dr. Meredith's letter continued and concluded with:

I have prayed for you and will pray for you much more in the days to come—asking God to guide you in His love for your eternal good. I do ask you to let us hear from you as I have indicated above. Our prayers will be with you, not against you. May God guide you to do His will, and not your own. 

With Christian love,

Roderick C. Meredith

I still pray pretty much daily for Dr. Meredith and that God’s will be done (Matthew 6:10).

It is not Christian love to bear false witness.  

It is not Christian love to make improper accusations. 

It is not Christian love to ignore Matthew 18:15-17. 

It is, however, Christian, to deny unprovable and false charges as I am trying to do that as that is also what the Apostle Paul did (Acts 24:10-13).

Perhaps I should add that an LCG minister said that I was considered by one of the Charlotte-evangelists to be the biggest ‘intellectual threat’ to that evangelist’s ambitions and that was likely a certain factor of the letters leading to my departure (there were also at least one or two field ministers who held a similar view). I would also add that my unexpected anointing by an LCG minister also caused several to worry that they might lose influence in LCG if I remained around (and that could have hurt the feelings of some who were fans of violent sports).

Pilate realized that the “chief priests” turned against Jesus because of envy (Mark 15:10). And I would suggest that the facts about what LCG did, suggests envy as at least a partial motivation, much more than love of the truth.

Dr. Meredith’s letter was wrong and, in many places false. Yet he sent it to the entire LCG ministry and one or more of his trusted supporters sent it to be published on the internet for the entire world to see.  I refrained responding to many of the details of this letter until November 2013 as I was not trying to start some type of war then, nor am I trying to do so nowmy objective upon leaving LCG was to reach as many as possible with getting the gospel out, so this took a while to get to.

However, I also believe that those who have heard some of the accusations against me should be entitled to the truth (cf. Matthew 18:17) and hopefully, this is enough information to help some who were otherwise confused about it. Overall, the letter is filled with accusations and the bottom line is that it appears to be a document intent upon character assassination.

So, some can believe, as Dr. Meredith apparently does/did that it was Jesus who wanted him to deny statements he made to me and make a lot of accusations against me, or they can believe the truth.  Jesus said, “you know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32).

In an article in the November-December 2013 edition of LCG's Tomorrow's World magazine, Dr. Meredith wrote:

The Eternal God commands His true ministers: “Cry aloud, spare not; lift up your voice like a trumpet; tell My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins” (Isaiah 58:1).

That is some of what I have tried to do as no one, even ministers, are exempt from sin.

Yet, many have trapped themselves into believing traditions and accusations above the truth.

Christians should love the truth and act upon it.  Sadly many seem to be content to think matters are fine when they are not (Revelation 3:14-22).  

Now, I realize that I might be 'marked' for telling the truth now. But if I do get 'marked' by LCG, realize it is for telling the truth. I have not gone after their members to try to create division, but wrote this because people asked me for facts and 'my side' of this.

This response contains the truth for those who can now bear it. Maybe some who sleep will arise and support the final phase of the work (cf. Matthew 25:1-13; Acts 13:41).

Summary to Consider


Moses, David, Jeremiah, Paul, others, including even Jesus, felt the need to truthfully defend themselves against those that improperly attacked them. Since Paul said to imitate him as he imitated Jesus (1 Corinthians 11;1), I have attempted to do so in this response.

Many did not believe Moses, Paul, Jeremiah, and Jesus when they told the truth. Hopefully, those reading this can believe me as I have also told the truth.

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COGwriter, November 27, 2013