Dreams, the Bible, the Radio Church of God, and the Continuing Church of God

Jacob's Latter
Artist Depiction of Jacob's Ladder Dream (Genesis 28:12)

By COGwriter

Do dreams and prophets have any place in the Christian Church today? Did any precede the start of the old Radio Church of God? Are any dreams related to the Continuing Church of God (CCOG). (The CCOG did not officially form as a declared entity until December 28, 2012.)

The Bible records that God often has used dreams to give messages, mainly to men (Genesis 20:3-7, 28:10-17, 31:10-13, 31:24, 37:5-10, 40:5-18, 41:1-32; Numbers 12:6; Judges 7:13-15; 1 Kings 3:5-15; Daniel 2:3-45, 4:4-27, 7:1-28; Matthew 1:20-25, 2:12, 2:13, 2:19, 2:22; Acts 16:9), and possibly at least once to a woman (cf. Numbers 12:6; Judges 4:4-16). Though most dreams that people have are not from God (Ecclesiastes 5:7; Zechariah 10:2).

Despite the sacrcity of Divine dreams, Herbert W. Armstrong claimed his wife Loma had a dream in the 20th century from God that preceded the start of the old Radio Church of God. Was God done with dreams then?

Well, in the 21st century, there have been at least three people who had dreams, prior to being part of the Continuing Church of God, which became fulfilled near or after they became part of CCOG. (A related sermon is also available: Dreams, COGs, and One Man Rule.) As well as some others after they became part of the CCOG.

Dreams in the Bible

Let's look at some of the dreams in the Bible, starting with one in involving Jacob:

10 Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran. 11 So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep. 12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

13 And behold, the Lord stood above it and said: "I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants. 14 Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed. 15 Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you."

16 Then Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the Lord is in this place, and I did not know it." 17 And he was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven!"

18 Then Jacob rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put at his head, set it up as a pillar, and poured oil on top of it. 19 And he called the name of that place Bethel; but the name of that city had been Luz previously. 20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, 21 so that I come back to my father's house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God. 22 And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You." (Genesis 28:10-22)

Now, Jacob had not too long before this improperly got a blessing (Genesis 27:18-29), a blessing that his father had not intended to give him, but one he also could not take back (Genesis 27:33-37). God then basically told Jacob that he was part of the plan and that God would be with him. He accepted the dream and also declared he would tithes of all he got.

Jacob also had a dream about what he would end up with (Genesis 31:10-13) and his father-in-law Laban was warned by God in a dream to not take it away (Genesis 31:24).

Joseph, Jacob's son, also was given dreams:

5 Now Joseph had a dream, and he told it to his brothers; and they hated him even more. 6 So he said to them, "Please hear this dream which I have dreamed: 7 There we were, binding sheaves in the field. Then behold, my sheaf arose and also stood upright; and indeed your sheaves stood all around and bowed down to my sheaf."

8 And his brothers said to him, "Shall you indeed reign over us? Or shall you indeed have dominion over us?" So they hated him even more for his dreams and for his words.

9 Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, "Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me."

10 So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?" 11 And his brothers envied him, but his father kept the matter in mind. (Genesis 37:5-11)

God was telling Joseph of a position he would attain in the future. When Joseph told of his dreams to his family, they envied him (and mocked him). Something similar to that happened to me when some of the leadership of the Living Church of God heard about one of my dreams.

Then later, the Pharaoh of Egypt had a dream that he asked Joseph to interpret:

14 Then Pharaoh sent and called Joseph, and they brought him quickly out of the dungeon; and he shaved, changed his clothing, and came to Pharaoh. 15 And Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I have had a dream, and there is no one who can interpret it. But I have heard it said of you that you can understand a dream, to interpret it."

16 So Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, "It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh an answer of peace."

17 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph: "Behold, in my dream I stood on the bank of the river. 18 Suddenly seven cows came up out of the river, fine looking and fat; and they fed in the meadow. 19 Then behold, seven other cows came up after them, poor and very ugly and gaunt, such ugliness as I have never seen in all the land of Egypt. 20 And the gaunt and ugly cows ate up the first seven, the fat cows. 21 When they had eaten them up, no one would have known that they had eaten them, for they were just as ugly as at the beginning. So I awoke. 22 Also I saw in my dream, and suddenly seven heads came up on one stalk, full and good. 23 Then behold, seven heads, withered, thin, and blighted by the east wind, sprang up after them. 24 And the thin heads devoured the seven good heads. So I told this to the magicians, but there was no one who could explain it to me."

25 Then Joseph said to Pharaoh, "The dreams of Pharaoh are one; God has shown Pharaoh what He is about to do: 26 The seven good cows are seven years, and the seven good heads are seven years; the dreams are one. 27 And the seven thin and ugly cows which came up after them are seven years, and the seven empty heads blighted by the east wind are seven years of famine. 28 This is the thing which I have spoken to Pharaoh. God has shown Pharaoh what He is about to do. 29 Indeed seven years of great plenty will come throughout all the land of Egypt; 30 but after them seven years of famine will arise, and all the plenty will be forgotten in the land of Egypt; and the famine will deplete the land. 31 So the plenty will not be known in the land because of the famine following, for it will be very severe. 32 And the dream was repeated to Pharaoh twice because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

33 "Now therefore, let Pharaoh select a discerning and wise man, and set him over the land of Egypt. 34 Let Pharaoh do this, and let him appoint officers over the land, to collect one-fifth of the produce of the land of Egypt in the seven plentiful years. 35 And let them gather all the food of those good years that are coming, and store up grain under the authority of Pharaoh, and let them keep food in the cities. 36 Then that food shall be as a reserve for the land for the seven years of famine which shall be in the land of Egypt, that the land may not perish during the famine."

37 So the advice was good in the eyes of Pharaoh and in the eyes of all his servants. 38 And Pharaoh said to his servants, "Can we find such a one as this, a man in whom is the Spirit of God?"

39 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Inasmuch as God has shown you all this, there is no one as discerning and wise as you. 40 You shall be over my house, and all my people shall be ruled according to your word; only in regard to the throne will I be greater than you." 41 And Pharaoh said to Joseph, "See, I have set you over all the land of Egypt." (Genesis 41:14-41)

Notice that Pharaoh had a dream which, according to Joseph, should involve a work. Pharaoh then appointed Joseph to do that work. And it was because of that work that later Joseph's dream related to his relatives was confirmed:

3 So Joseph's ten brothers went down to buy grain in Egypt. 4 But Jacob did not send Joseph's brother Benjamin with his brothers, for he said, "Lest some calamity befall him." 5 And the sons of Israel went to buy grain among those who journeyed, for the famine was in the land of Canaan.

6 Now Joseph was governor over the land; and it was he who sold to all the people of the land. And Joseph's brothers came and bowed down before him with their faces to the earth. 7 Joseph saw his brothers and recognized them, but he acted as a stranger to them and spoke roughly to them. Then he said to them, "Where do you come from?"

And they said, "From the land of Canaan to buy food."

8 So Joseph recognized his brothers, but they did not recognize him. 9 Then Joseph remembered the dreams which he had dreamed about them, and said to them, "You are spies! You have come to see the nakedness of the land!" (Genesis 42:3-9)

God also gave other dreams of a prophetic nature to Gentiles (Judges 7:13-16; Daniel 2:3-45, 4:4-27, 7:1-28) The dreams, especially in Daniel, that we in the Continuing Church of God refer to even now as they contain prophecies that are still to come to pass.

Daniel was a prophet and God's word states:

17 ... Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams. (Daniel 1:17)

So, yes, it makes sense that a prophet would be one who God would use at other times to understand dreams.

In the New Testament, various ones had dreams (Matthew 1:20-25, 2:12, 2:13, 2:19, 2:22; 27:9). The Apostle Paul had a prophetic vision at night himself:

9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night. A man of Macedonia stood and pleaded with him, saying, "Come over to Macedonia and help us." 10 Now after he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to preach the gospel to them. (Acts 16:9-10)

It is possible that this vision was part of a dream as the Bible ties in dreams and night visions in Isaiah 29:7 (see also Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible and Barnes' Notes on the Bible think it may have been). But whether he was awake or not, Paul understood prophetically that he had a specific work to do based upon the vision.

What about dreams, prophecy, and other spiritual gifts?

Does the Bible ever teach about prophets and dreams?


Of course, many do not want to believe that God uses dreams or will discount the ones they hear about.

Yet, the Bible shows that God often chooses to work with prophets through a dream:

6 “Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream. (Numbers 12:6)

Notice that the above says that God will speak to His prophet in a dream.

Several years ago I had a dream, which while I did not understand it at first,  as it became more and more fulfilled over the years,  I began to understand it and believe it was from God.

I was about 50 at the time (which essentially makes me an ‘old man’  per Numbers 8:25; cf. John 8:57). At first it made little sense. Yet, the Prophet Jeremiah at least once wondered about a message he received and later determined it was from God (Jeremiah 32:6-8), and the Apostle Peter at least once had a vision that he did not understand (Acts 10:9-17) until later as well (Acts 11:5-17). The same goes for Daniel (Daniel 8).

In my dream, there seemed to be two parallel lines. The presiding evangelist of the Living Church of God (LCG) Roderick Meredith was on the top line and I was on the line much below. In the dream, I kept calling up to Dr. Meredith, but he never would respond. This lack of response made no sense to me during the dream. Then after what seemed to be a long time, the lines-crossed with his line dropping and my line going up.

One reason that I did not understand it at the time was that I was on relatively close speaking terms with Dr. Meredith then (he repeatedly told me he considered me to be his friend, plus he had appointed me an adviser to LCG on matters of doctrine and prophecy), so that aspect made of the dream made no sense. Also, since I had no intentions of leaving Living Church of God then (and certainly no plans to start a separate church), it was not clear what the dream was saying. Another reason I was unsure about the dream then was that I had not had any anointing for the Holy Spirit beyond baptism when I had that dream.

But these matters changed eventually. For one, I was unexpectedly anointed for a ‘double-portion’ of God’s Spirit (cf. 2 Kings 2:9) on December 15, 2011 by an LCG minister named Gaylyn Bonjour (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God) who suggested that the passing of the mantle may had taken place.

Furthermore, over time, Dr. Meredith became more distant from me, would not keep various promises to me, and ultimately stopped speaking with me. And after I got a letter from him on 12/28/12, it was clear to me that there was no way that the Philadelphia mantle could be with him or any of his remaining leaders (see Roderick C. Meredith's Accusatory Letter to Bob Thiel). These subsequent events showed me that the dream was being fulfilled. This dream gave an outline of what would happen in the future and that has happened.

Notice also:

28 The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. (Jeremiah 23:28)

I also had another dream (and do not recall precisely when, but it was prior to 2012) reminiscent of a vision that Isaiah.  In that dream, I recall responding to a request from God and saying, “Here I am, send me” (cf. Isaiah 6:8). I have spoken God's word faithfully.

I told LCG leaders of both dreams per Jeremiah 23:28 though they did not ask for the details, thus they had that witness, before I had to leave (and no, I did not ask for recognition nor make any personal demands, other than urging them to keep their word and correct literature/doctrinal/prophetic errors that they acknowledged they had).

In time, and partially because of statements from Gaylyn Bonjour about the passing of the mantle, it occurred to me that the dreams were showing that the mantle would (or had) pass.

Related to dreams, the Bible also teaches:

8 “And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. (Joel 2:28-29)

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them,

“Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. (Acts 2:14-18)

28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? (1 Corinthians 12:28-30).

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head–Christ– 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love (Ephesians 4:11-16).

Despite what the Bible supports, most Church of God groups do not seemingly accept that there are any prophets today, nor do they seem to accept that God actually sometimes speaks in dreams in the 21st century–some, oddly, seem indignant of the very idea. Part of the reason for this is that those self-proclaimed ‘prophets’ outside of the Continuing Church of God have tended to proven to be false (see also Why Be Concerned About False and Heretical Leaders?).

But that does not mean God doesn’t ever use dreams or have any in the office of prophet. The Bible shows that God can pour out a ‘double-portion’ of His Spirit (cf. 2 Kings 2:9-15) as what happened when an ordained minister so prayed and anointed me on December 15, 2011 (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God). As already cited, the Bible shows that the Apostle Peter and the prophet Joel mentioned that there would be some with prophetic dreams in the end times.

The Continuing Church of God is the only COG organization with so many of the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18 (see also Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?).

Herbert W. Armstrong on Acts 2 and Dreams

Should any Church of God actually have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?

The late Pastor General of the old Worldwide Church of God, Herbert W. Armstrong, basically said so in a 1981 sermon:

Joel 2:28-29 And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

So there is a time coming when God will start pouring out His spirit on human beings. … Day of Pentecost, 3000 were baptized. Peter preached a sermon. They were pricked in their hearts. God began to draw them. God was now… Remember He said, “I will pour out of my spirit on all flesh.” All right, there’s a duality of that. (Armstrong HW. Building The Temple. Sermon, February 14, 1981)

Herbert W. Armstrong was correct about the time coming when God would pour out His Spirit as well the duality. There was a duality to what Peter preached in Acts 2–and that duality is for our current time!

While some may wish to discount what happened with me, let us also look at something that Herbert W. Armstrong wrote about dreams:

Let me say here that in about 99,999 times out of 100,000, when people think GOD is speaking to them in a dream or vision in this day and age, it is pure imagination, or some form of self-hypnotism or self-deception. I have only come to believe that this dream was a bonafide call from God in the light of subsequent events. (Autobiography of Herbert Armstrong, (Volume 1), chapter 10, 1973, p. 194)

And that is correct. Most dreams are not from God, even if people think that they are.  Notice what the Bible teaches:

7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there is also vanity. But fear God. (Ecclesiastes 5:7)

Dreams from God are shown to be correct in the light of subsequent events (though just because a dream ends up being correct, that does of itself, not prove that it was from God as there can be other factors, cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-5, but God Himself does sometimes use dreams, Numbers 12:6; Acts 2:17-18).

There are also false dreams:

2 For the idols speak delusion; The diviners envision lies, And tell false dreams; (Zechariah 10:2)

Though many discount all dreams, many also forget that Herbert W. Armstrong believed that his wife Loma D. Armstrong had a dream from God, although it took him some years to accept the validity of it:

Within 30 or 60 days after our marriage God spoke to my wife in what might have been an intense unusual dream, or a vision -- but it was years later before we came to realize that this really was a message from God.  (Armstrong HW.  Brethren and Co-worker letter, November 28, 1956)

One night my wife had a dream so vivid and impressive it overwhelmed and shook her tremendously. It was so realistic it seemed more like a vision. For two or three days afterward everything else seemed unreal -- as if in a daze -- and only this extraordinary dream seemed real.

In her dream she and I were crossing the wide intersection, only a block or two from our apartment, where Broadway diagonally crosses Sheridan Road. Suddenly there appeared an awesome sight in the sky above. It was a dazzling spectacle -- the sky filled with a gigantic solid mass of brilliant stars, shaped like a huge banner. The stars began to quiver and separate, finally vanishing. She called my attention to the vanishing stars, when another huge grouping of flashing stars appeared, then quivering, separating, and vanishing like the first.

As she and I, in her dream, looked upward at the vanishing stars, three large white birds suddenly appeared in the sky between us and the vanishing stars. These great white birds flew directly toward us. As they descended nearer, she perceived that they were angels.

“Then,” my wife wrote a day or two after the dream, in a letter to my mother which I have just run across among old family pictures, “it dawned on me that Christ was coming, and I was so happy I was just crying for joy. Then suddenly I thought of Herbert and was rather worried.”

She knew I had evidenced very little religious interest, although we had attended a corner church two or three times.

Then it seemed that, from among these angels in her dream, that, “Christ descended from among them and stood directly in front of us.

At first I was a little doubtful and afraid of how He would receive us, because I remembered we had neglected our Bible study and had our minds too much on things apart from His interests. But as we went up to Him, He put His arms around both of us, and we were so happy! I thought people all over the world had seen Him come. As far as we could see, people were just swarming into the streets at this broad intersection. Some were glad and some were afraid.

“Then it seemed He had changed into an angel. I was terribly disappointed at first, until he told me Christ was really coming in a very short time.”

At that time, we had been going quite regularly to motion - picture theatres. She asked the angel if this were wrong. He replied Christ had important work for us to do, preparing for His coming -- there would be no time for “movies .” (Those were the days of the “silent” pictures.) Then the angel and the whole spectacle seemed to vanish, and she awakened, shaken and wondering!

In the morning, she told me of her dream. I was embarrassed. I didn’t want to think about it, yet I was afraid to totally dismiss it. I thought of a logical way to evade it myself, and still solve it. ...

Do not hastily ascribe a dream to God. True, the Bible shows that God has spoken to His own chosen servants by this means of communication -- primarily in the Old Testament, and before the writing of the Bible was completed. But most dreams mean nothing. And false prophets have misled people by telling false dreams, representing their dreams to be the Word of God (Jeremiah 23, where God sa ys, “I am against prophets who recount lying dreams, leading my people astray with their lies and their empty pretensions, though I never sent them, never commissioned them” -- verse 32, Moffatt translation).

Certainly I did not ascribe this dream to God. It made me feel a little uncomfortable at the time, and I was anxious to forget it -- which I did for some years. I was twenty - five at the time. God left me to my own ways for five more years. But when I was age thirty, He began to deal with me in no uncertain terms... (The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 1973, pp. 187,193-194).

Loma and Herbert Armstrong were married in 1917. They were specifically told that they would have a work to do--this was a special calling to Loma and Herbert Armstrong. Furthermore, the bright lights in the dream may have had to do with doing a work (cf. Matthew 5:16)--a work that seemed to vanish and return (flash). Thus, there was a dream from given to a woman in the 20th century that preceded the start of the old Radio Church of God that Herbert W. Armstrong led. The Radio Church of God represented the start of the Philadelphia era and the Philadelphian work--a work that is not finished (cf. Matthew 24:14-15)--and Herbert W. Armstrong claimed that a dream given to his wife was from God, prior to the start of the Philadelphia era.

Since the Philadelphia era was raised up years after that dream, a question to ponder is would God do anything similar to point to the continuation of the end-time COG remnant of the Philadelphians? Consider that in Loma Armstrong's dream that there were two sets of flashing stars. Herbert Armstrong is now dead and there was a pause between the work God had him to do and the completion of the final phase of the work to finally fulfill Matthew 24:14 (cf. Isaiah 29:14?).

In the past, like in 2013 and 2014, I have called the time between his death and the formation of the Continuing Church of God the transitional phase (see also The Final Phase of the Work)--which is consistent with Loma Armstrong's dream. God will cut that final work short (Romans 9:28) which results in the famine of the word (Amos 8:12; see also Preparing for the 'Short Work' and The Famine of the Word) which is consistent with the vanishing stars in Loma Armstrong's dream (though there could be other interpretations--we in CCOG are continuing the Philadelphia work and expect to be the ones God will use on earth to help finish it).

He mentioned the dream from time to time publicly, here are two nearly identical accounts:

I'm usually pretty skeptical about God speaking to anyone today in visions or dreams. God speaks to us thru His Son, Jesus Christ — the WORD of God — and the Bible is the written Word. I didn't really believe it then, 38 years ago, but subsequent events have verified that God did speak to my wife at that time, shortly after we were married, revealing thru an angel that He was calling us to the mission of WARNING the world of the fast-approaching END OF THIS WORLD, the Coming of Jesus Christ, and the world-ruling Kingdom of God. At the time I was unconverted, not bothering to attend church, interested only in business and making money. I was embarrassed — a little awed — but immediately tried to put it out of my mind. But at age 30 God took away my business, struck me down, took away my idol of money-making and business prestige. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker letter, November 25, 1955)

 I'm usually pretty skeptical about God speaking to anyone today in visions or dreams. God speaks to us thru His Son, Jesus Christ — the WORD of God — and the Bible is the written Word. I didn't really believe it then, 38 years ago, but subsequent events have verified that God did speak to my wife at that time, shortly after we were married, revealing thru an angel in a vision that He was calling us to the mission of WARNING the world of the fast- approaching END OF THIS WORLD, the coming of Jesus Christ, and the world-ruling Kingdom of God. At that time I was unconverted, not bothering to attend church, interested only in business and making money. I was embarrassed — a little awed — but immediately tried to put it out of my mind. But at age 30 God took away my business, struck me down, took away my idol of money-making and business prestige. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker letter, February 21, 1956)

Then it seemed in her dream that "Christ descended from among them and stood directly in front of us. At first I was a little doubtful and afraid of how he would receive us, because I remembered we had neglected our Bible study and had our minds too much on things apart from his interests. But as we went up to him, he put his arms around both of us, and we were so happy! I thought people all over the world had seen him come. As far as we could see, people were just swarming into the streets at this broad intersection. Some were glad and some were afraid. (Mystery of the Ages, Introduction)

Notice that the dream was to go until the end of the world and the coming of Jesus--since Herbert Armstrong has been dead since January 16, 1986--if the dream was from God then, does it not make sense that the second half of the dream would be fulfilled by another in the 21st century? We in the Continuing Church of God are fulfilling that second part of stars (see also The Final Phase of the Work).

Perhaps it should be mentioned, Herbert Armstrong had more information about what I am referring to as the first set of stars (the first part) in the dream. He wrote:

It was a dazzling spectacle...People by the hundreds came running into this broad intersection looking up to see the strange phenomena ... A vast multitude of eyes were upon us... I have only come to believe that this dream was a bonafide call from God in the light of subsequent events. (Armstrong HW. The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 9th installment. Plain Truth, August 1958, p. 18).

Eyes of a vast multitude suggest that the dream was saying that the work to be done was to have a witness to many. This happened with the old Radio and Worldwide Church of God under Herbert Armstrong's leadership in the 20th century. The second set of stars in the dream, which he did not mention in the August 1958 Plain Truth, article, but did in his published Autobiography, seems to pertain to what I have called, for years, The Final Phase of the Work as well as the 'Short Work.' But even if it had applicability to the ministry of Herbert Armstrong only, the dream, which he also shortly before his death confirmed he believed was from God (per Aaron Dean, who I discussed this with on October 30, 2015), shows that one dream did precede the COG work he was involved in.

Understand that Herbert W. Armstrong considered that his wife Loma's dream was from God. He also believed the first part of it had to do with the start of the Philadelphia era of the Church of God via the Radio Church Church of God.  He did not discuss the fulfillment of the second part of the dream directly, however he taught another work would be done.

Dale Schurter, a former WCG minister, reported that Herbert W. Armstrong stated the following in 1984/1985 (shortly before he died in January 1986). Here are two accounts of this:

“A few months before Mr. Armstrong’s death, my wife and I had the opportunity to spend several hours with Mr. Armstrong in his home in Pasadena. He spoke freely of the mighty work God had commissioned him to accomplish, and related certain heartfelt comments: ‘I can say that I have finished the work God has given me to do, and am at peace about it. I have preached and taken the Gospel of the Kingdom of God into all the world as a witness to all nations.’

“Mr. Armstrong went on to say, ‘I have come to realize there will be an even greater work to follow—to go again, to “prophesy again” to all nations tongues and peoples (Rev. 10:11) before the work of the two witnesses—but with more power and with a stronger warning message. But that will be for others to do.’ He continued, ‘It will be a short work (Rom. 9:27-29), compared with the longer time to complete the work I was given, and it will be cut short. That’s when the Great Tribulation will begin, as will the work of the two witnesses. These will last for three and one-half years, at the end of which Christ will return in glory.’” (“The Greatest Work Lies JUST Ahead…” as stated in RCG letter of May 31, 2013)

When Mr. Armstrong was age 91 --- about 1984 --- Mona and I had opportunity to spend several hours with him in his home in Pasadena to visit and further report on work he had commissioned us to do. We were to report directly back to him. He talked freely of the mighty work God had given him to accomplish. He went on to tell us there was yet a bigger work still to be done, to go again and repeat what has been done, but with more power and with a stronger warning, just before the work of the two witnesses would begin. He said it would be a “short work” (Rom. 9:27-29) compared with the longer time to complete the work he had been given, and that it would be “cut short.” That’s when the great tribulation would begin, as would the work of the two witnesses. These would last for three and one-half years. (January 7, 2012 Dale Schurter Speaks Out: UCG Resignation Letter http://www.rcgtruth.com/2012/01/dale-l-schurter-resignation-letter_06.html)

Herbert Armstrong's part of the work lasted over 50 years, and he seemingly felt that the "short work" would be much shorter than his work. And that is correct.

His long-time aide, Aaron Dean confirmed with me on August 15, 2017 that it was not until the last year or so of his life that Herbert Armstrong realized that he would NOT be around until Jesus returned. Therefore, if his wife's dream was from God, as he claimed it was, there was still to be fulfillment of the second part of it.

Furthermore, notice something that was in Herbert W. Armstrong's last letter:

The greatest work lies ahead...Never before in the history of the Church has it been possible to reap so great a harvest. It has only been made possible through modern technology, beginning with the printing press, radio, television...Each of you must commit yourself to support God's Work...God's work must push ahead as never before. God is opening up new doors in television (Letter, 1/10/86).

Consider that since Herbert Armstrong did not teach that the second part of his wife Loma's dream was fulfilled and that he also taught a greater work was going to happen after his death. It is greater because it will fulfill Matthew 24:14, etc. That is the work that we in the Continuing Church of God are leading (see The Final Phase of the Work and Preparing for the 'Short Work' and The Famine of the Word). It appears that the second part of Loma D. Armstrong's dream was pointing to the Continuing Church of God.

The fact that there were also other dreams related to the Continuing Church of God that were confirmed is consistent with the fact that God has used dreams related to the Continuing Church of God.

Do you believe that God could use any dreams in the 21st century?

Perhaps it should also be mentioned that the Personal Correspondence Department in the old WCG sent out a letter on dreams and stated the Bible showed that future dreams from God to His people were expected. It then had a date change added to it and here is a quote from that one:

Thank you for your question concerning visions or dreams. The Bible reveals that in times past servants of God were given visions and dreams for specific reasons and/or to convey special messages. ...God has used this means of communication in the past and will do so again (Acts 2:17; Joel 2:28) (L052 Worldwide Church of God, 1989)

As the WCG did not publicly acknowledge any such dreams after that letter was sent, the interpretation must be that God would later use dreams (it should be mentioned that the original date of L052 was prior to 1986--hence it was not a change by the Tkach Administration).

In his booklet, The Tongues Question (1970), Herbert Armstrong wrote:

While correcting the Corinthian church, Paul said, “I would that ye ALL spake with tongues” (I Cor. 14:5), and “forbid not to speak with tongues,” in the church (verse 39). We should banish all prejudice against the true manifestation of tongues which is the ability to speak in real languages.

But we should get the tongues into the proper SCRIPTURAL place of importance.

Yet, many also have prejudice against God’s use of dreams.

Consider also something that Herbert W. Armstrong wrote:

This very WORK OF GOD for our day is foretold in the prophecy of Revelation 3:7-13. But there it is revealed that we, today, are a people of but little strength - little power (verse 8)! - within ourselves though we have faithfully KEPT GOD’S WORD! The impact of this WORK OF GOD today is going out only through the power of God! Are you having your part in this very WORK OF GOD? But - let’s face it! - WE DO NOT HAVE WITHIN OURSELVES, AS GOD’S INSTRUMENTS FOR HIS WORK TODAY, ANYWHERE NEAR THE POWER OF GOD THAT ACTIVATED THAT ORIGINAL FIRST-CENTURY CHURCH! For that very reason, the living Christ says (verse 8), He has opened to us the gigantic door of MASS COMMUNICATION! The magnified power of the microphone and the printing press. Yet that is only physical, mechanical power! The REAL POWER that makes God’s Work vital and alive is the Holy Spirit of God! (Armstrong HW. Christians Have Lost Their POWER! Plain Truth, Jun 1958).

The Greek word translated as strength, dunamis, which HWA refers to as power, is the same Greek word that is normally translated as 'miracle' or 'miracles'. Thus, Revelation 3:8 shows that the Philadelphia Church will have some type of miracles, and although I agree with HWA's position that the initial power/miracle had to do with electronic media, I also agree with him that the old WCG did not have, "ANYWHERE NEAR THE POWER OF GOD THAT ACTIVATED THAT ORIGINAL FIRST-CENTURY CHURCH." Thus, HWA acknowledged, howbeit indirectly, that the power of God had not been fully restored to the church in his time. And it should be noted that dreams and gifts of prophecy were given to the first-century church (Acts 2:17-18) and thus, according to his own writing, there should be these type of occurrences at the end. One group in the 21st century has that (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God).

Now sometime in 1980, Herbert W. Armstrong had a dream he reported about:

I had a vivid example of this a couple of mornings ago, awakening from a dream. In the dream it seemed to be several years ago when the Church was smaller. There was a young man across the street who looked like a possible one of our leaders. He was about age 30, with outstanding personality and appearance, and an articulate extrovert. Then two other young men of about 30, well dressed, of somewhat impressive appearance and manner, were seen walking over and talking to him. They took pains to avoid me, and I seemed to know they were opposed to me personally.

In the dream I determined to speak immediately with the man they were trying to influence adversely. I told him I knew they were "lobbying" against the Church and against me. 

"Yes," he replied, "but I have to tell you, Mr. Armstrong, I think these men have something worth listening to. They say you arrogate to yourself too much power. You make yourself the leader of the Church. They say the people ought to have all the 'say so.' The people ought to vote on who they want to be their leader and on what they want to believe and accept as Church doctrine. That sounds like a good idea to me. I think we need more DEMOCRACY." 

I awoke at that point, thinking about the dream, which had stuck in my mind. But before awakening, I remember I had said to this man in the dream, "Well, the REAL QUESTION is whether this is GOD'S Church or the PEOPLE'S Church! If it is GOD'S Church, then GOD is running it, and revealing what we shall believe and teach. GOD has the 'say so'. God runs it through Jesus Christ, who is the HEAD of the Church. And Jesus Christ runs it through His chosen apostle, whom HE, not men, chose, prepared and now guides and leads. Those men are getting your eyes off of GOD — you are leaving GOD out of the picture — out of the Church. You are looking only at people! (Armstrong HW. Shall We All Leave THE CHURCH OF GOD and Join 'THE CHURCH OF PEOPLE'? Good News, September 1980)

Christians should accept biblical governance and look to the proofs and signs God provides as opposing to look to the approval of humans, which most tend to do.

Would God Give a Dream to Another Woman?

A question to ponder is have there been any dreams from God in more recent years? Could a dream from another woman precede the start of the formation of the leader of the Philadelphia remnant?

In addition to my dreams (which seemed consistent with Number 12:6, Isaiah 6:8 and Acts 2:17), there also seems to have been at least two other dreams related to the Continuing Church of God that I would like to mention in some detail.

The first involves a woman.

Unbeknownst to me until late September 2013, a lady named Fesilafai Fiso Leaana of New Zealand had a dream after going to bed on December 8, 2012.  Here is a report that Fesilafai Fiso Leaana wrote about her dream:

A few months before my dream, my husband and I noticed a contradiction in practice, regarding the sabbath commandment in LCG, from there we started to pray continuously for God to lead us to where the truth is.  It seems God has answered our prayers through the dream.

The dream began with myself and approximately 70 New Zealand Living Church of God brethren, then suddenly LCG vanished (I was wondering where is LCG?) and I was left standing with approximately 10 people excluding myself, on a very high building. We were standing on the very top of the building, where I couldn’t see the bottom, there were no other buildings, just this building. I could not see the bottom of the building but just clouds below the building and clouds surrounding the building which led to a beautiful white mountain – a mountain that had no ends on either side. The building was pretty close to the mountain, I could see the top of the mountain. The mountain was all white and so beautiful. I remember that I began to be filled with joy and peace. But also wondering how we got up on this building and confused why there were no other buildings but the clouds seemed like it was hiding the building and I felt protected or it felt like a safe place. I looked around there were still only about ten people there, the only person I could clearly recognize was Shirley constantly working, the approximate ten others were just sitting and standing around. So I walked around the building looking for the large crowd from LCG, but all I kept returning to was that Shirley was working and doing different types of work alone while the others were still sitting and standing around the building with me. I wondered why she was working a lot.  I could not find LCG.

Then suddenly a message came to my mind: “There is a secret in the mountain”. And I was so happy to know that, I was still feeling elated and could still see the beautiful white mountain and wondered about the secret.  Then I asked: “What is the secret?” Then the message said, nobody knows the secret in the mountain but only you have received this message that there is a secret in the mountain. Then I asked ‘what is the secret in the mountain?’ I received a message to my mind that told me that “the secret in the mountain is the Ark of the Covenant”. Then the dream abruptly ended because I woke up. And immediately, I woke up my husband and recounted the dream to him, and I told my husband that it reminded me of when God gave Moses the Ten Commandments on the mountain and that the mountain was also covered with clouds.

On the same day after my dream, at church service Mr Penman warned us to be careful what we read from Bob Thiel’s Obama book, because they do not support everything he wrote in it.  At the time I kept your name in my mind as I did not know who you were then.

Then 3 weeks later Shirley contacted me regarding your Chronology – the exit from LCG. Shirley had all of the Chronology and gave us all a print out of it and went over it with my husband and I. Shirley kept stressing the integrity of the LCG leadership and administration was compromised as proven by your Chronology account. Then my husband and I had to make a decision whether we would continue with LCG or go with Bob Thiel (you) since Shirley, John and Kayla had already decided to be with you :)

We decided to go with Bob Thiel and then left the meeting but a letter from Mr. Penman and a visit from the new New Zealand minister Paul attempted to obstruct our departure and tried to dissuade us from leaving LCG and coming with you. This forced us to carefully rethink our decision.

My husband and I were alone, that’s when my husband said to me, “remember your dream? This is what your dream means, that we need to leave this church and go with Shirley”. That’s when we knew what to do. And this dream is the reason most of us in the kiwi CCOG knew that we are in the right Church, God told us to come to this Church. We reaffirmed with Shirley and others that we were going to go with Bob Thiel and my husband told them the dream for the first time and that the dream is the reason my husband and I decided to come.

Not having all the details of the dream, Shirley then prayed about the dream. She asked God for more understanding on the dream. Then the next day she was reading the book of Psalm and Psalm 25:14 JUMPED out at her: “The secret of the Lord is with those who fear Him, And He will show them His covenant.” (email 9/29/13)

Within several weeks of the dream, ten people in New Zealand, including Shirley Gestro (the Shirley above) began to attend the newly formed Continuing Church of God. So that part of the dream was clearly confirmed.

Biblically, mountains can symbolize government (Psalm 30:7; Isaiah 11:9; Daniel 2:35; Zechariah 4:7; see also The Bible, Peter, Paul, John, Polycarp, Herbert W. Armstrong, Roderick C. Meredith, and Bob Thiel on Church Government) and white purity or cleanness (Isaiah 1:18; Revelation 7:14, 19:14). Clouds around a mountain (or at least the top of it) could show a separation—maybe a separation that keeps many from seeing all of the truth (cf. Job 22:14; Lamentations 3:44) or recognizing top leadership?

The dream seemed to be a signal to confirm that the Philadelphia mantle was not with the Living Church of God, but instead was associated with someone that that had something to do with the ark of the covenant. Prior to the dream Fesilafai Fiso Leaana indicated that she had problems with how the leadership in LCG viewed the Sabbath, and that was one of the issues that I dealt within weeks of the formation of the Continuing Church of God.

Now, I (Bob Thiel) never heard of, nor learned of, this dream until after the start of the Feast of Tabernacles in September 2013 in New Zealand (which is where my wife Joyce and I began the Feast of Tabernacles in 2013).

Why is that potentially significant?

Back in 2006, when I was first asked to give a sermon at the Feast of Tabernacles, it occurred to me that never in WCG, GCG, nor LCG did I recall anyone actually fulfilling the requirement in Deuteronomy 31:10-13 about reading the “words of the law” in Deuteronomy every seven years at the Feast of Tabernacles. So, when the opportunity to give a sermon came up (in Guatemala in 2006), I attempted to go through that book of the law. In 2012, it occurred to me that since this was to be done every seven years, that somehow I would need to do this in 2013 (seven years later), but I was not sure how this would be done. However, once the Continuing Church of God formed, I realized that how this would be done at the Feast of Tabernacles in 2013.

My plan was to be faithful to the covenant and teach it, consistent with Shirley Gestro's interpretation--the interpretion of which she had before meeting me or telling me anything about this.

An interesting coincidence?

If the dream related to the Ark was essentially spiritual, then it has been being fulfilled by the CCOG.

As it turns out, it was after I began to cite Deuteronomy 31:10-13 and started reading the book of the law at the Feast of Tabernacles in New Zealand in 2013, that Fesilafai Fiso Leaana came up to me and told me about her dream. We discussed some points about it and the ark of the covenant, etc. As it turns out, one of the items that was kept besides the ark of the covenant was the very same “Book of the Law” (Deuteronomy 31:26)  that I was reading in its entirety publicly during that Feast of Tabernacles. This is a connection that, humanly speaking Fesilafai Leaana could not have known. There are also other potential ramifications related to the ark of the covenant.

Subsequent events, events that Fesilafai Leaana could not have known on December 8/9, 2012, confirmed her dream. She had no idea that the Continuing Church of God was going to form, and I had not made the decision to actually form it until after getting a letter on December 28, 2012. Fesilafai Leaana’s dream is another witness as to the proper start, etc. of the Continuing Church of God.

On October 24, 2013, I was able to visit the visible remains of the Church of God on Jerusalem's Western Hill as well as go inside what the crusaders and Muslims eventually built upon it. I was not actually planning on going there until about a week before I went (someone was supposed to get me some information the month before there, but was unable to do it--so as a last minute move, I decided to go). I did not go because of Fesilafai Leaana's dream.

Anyway, while attempting to take some photos and to video some of the remains of the Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill, I was approached by a Jewish rabbi named Avraham Goldstein of the Diaspora Yeshiva. He asked why I was there, so I explained my interest in what is believed to have been the first Christian church building in Jerusalem (see Church of God on Jerusalem's Western Hill)--a picture of which was on the front cover of our songbook, The Bible Hymnal, then and now.

Avraham Goldstein then asked me if the Continuing Church of God would like to be involved in an archaeological project related to that general area. He mentioned doing excavations related to what some believe is David's tomb, located below. Many consider that only a legend and not the real location--though the actual location of David's tomb has not been verified in many centuries. However a Jewish rabbi who claimed to visit it in 1163 A.D. stated it was below this particular Mt. Zion.

Avraham Goldstein also told me that he believes that the ark of the covenant may be directly below or near it via tunnels. He, not I, brought up the Ark of the Covenant.

Another Ark location could be in Ireland (see also Ark of the Covenant: Prophetic Ramifications)--a place my wife and I have considered visiting (unrelated to the Ark matter).

I do not know if this ties to Fesilafai Leaana's dream or if CCOG would be involved in finding the Ark in Israel or the British Isles or ? But if so, that would be a powerful witness.

Anyway, I have reported years ago to the brethren of the Continuing Church of God that we were considering having some possible involvement with Avraham Goldstein's proposal, because of various aspects of this project (see Letter: October 25, 2013). I have spoken to Avraham Goldstein a few times on the telephone since my visit there in 2013.

It is my intent to try to look more into this project, presuming I am able to go back to Jerusalem in the next few years.

If the ark of the covenant is now below the Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill, known as Mt. Zion, and found that could have ramifications for the world as well as the Continuing Church of God (see Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill).

As far as where the Ark is to end up, furthermore, notice:

8 Arise, O Lord, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. 9 Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness,And let Your saints shout for joy. 10 For Your servant David’s sake, Do not turn away the face of Your Anointed. 11 The Lord has sworn in truth to David; He will not turn from it: “I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body. 12 If your sons will keep My covenant And My testimony which I shall teach them, Their sons also shall sit upon your throne forevermore.” 13 For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place: 14 “This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it. 15 I will abundantly bless her provision; I will satisfy her poor with bread. 16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation, And her saints shall shout aloud for joy. 17 There I will make the horn of David grow;I will prepare a lamp for My Anointed. 18 His enemies I will clothe with shame, But upon Himself His crown shall flourish.” (Psalm 132:8-18)

While Solomon wanted it to be in the temple he built to house the ark forever, God had David write Zion was the chosen location.

It remains my view that there is a chance that we will see the Ark or a strong claim that someone has located the Ark (or perhaps part of it) within the next decade or so.

Furthermore, Fesilafai Leaana’s dream, in a sense, is reminiscent of the dream that Loma Armstrong had prior to the formation ot the Radio Church of God.

Notice something from the Book of Hebrews:

1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. ... 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? (Hebrews 2:1,4)

Now, people with a former Worldwide Church of God background generally believed the dream that the late Loma Armstrong had prior to the formation of the Radio Church of God was a sign from God.

Yet, since that dream had multiple parts, and the final part was NOT fulfilled when her husband, the late Herbert W. Armstrong was alive, Philadelphian Christians should have looked for its future fulfillment.

Instead, those who are/became Laodicean have ‘drifted away’ from that. And furthermore, they have tended to discount and/or even despise all dreams. But, that seems to have been prophesied:

41 'Behold, you despisers,
Marvel and perish!
For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe,
Though one were to declare it to you.' (Acts 13:41)

More on the work can be found in the articles Preparing for the 'Short Work' and The Famine of the Word and The Final Phase of the Work.

Dreams are a sign that God has used to confirm 'Philadelphia.'

The Bible teaches:

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8)

So, does it not make sense that if God granted a dream to a woman prior to the formation of the Radio Church of God that God could have done that prior to the formation of the Continuing Church of God?

The Third Dreamer

On March 28, 2014, I flew into London for a two night stopover, before heading to Kenya for a CCOG leadership conference.  Within an hour of arriving at my hotel, Senhor Pires came for baptismal counseling. As we walked from the hotel lobby to my room, he urgently wanted to tell me about a vision he saw in a dream that he had.

Here is what he said:

I had this dream. In it was a vision of a congregation of the Continuing Church of God inside a transparent glass bubble (like a balloon). And everyone, I mean everyone apart from the speaker, was black. The speaker was white. And I was asking myself inside that bubble…”why is everyone black here?”

It made no sense to me.  I wondered why I would see this.

When Senhor Pires told me the above, I began to laugh.  I said to him, “Didn’t you know that the vast majority of people in the Continuing Church of God were black?”

And he said, “No, I figured that most would be white.”

I then told him, “This is quite interesting. Your dream seems to be one of three or more directly related to the Continuing Church of God (CCOG) that has had confirmation.”

I also told him that I was to fly to Kenya in two days Sunday, and that those who were to attend a Continuing Church of God leadership conference from Kenya and Tanzania were also black, and that I, the main speaker, would be the only one I knew of that would be white. As it turned out, no other white people attended, so that dream was confirmed.

God has worked with Africans in the past and this dream was an indication that many in the Continuing Church of God would be of African heritage (see also Africa: Its Biblical Past and Prophesied Future).

Also as it turns out, not only was Senhor Pires black, but the others who came to attend Sabbath services with us the next day in the United Kingdom were also black. Neither Senhor Pires nor I were aware of this until March 30, 2014.

Since that time, the Continuing Church of God went from having about 260 African members to about 7000 before the end of 2022.

While this may not seem to be a massive ‘earth-shattering’ dream, it is yet additional confirmation that God has used dreams/visions to communicate to at least three individuals who all later became part of the Continuing Church of God. Dreams and visions are something that God intended to use during the end times (cf. Acts 2:17-18; Joel 2:28-29). Elijah apparently once thought that God would be in something dramatic, but then only was in “a still small voice” (1 Kings 19:11-13). Dreams remind me of the "still small voice." Although Elijah accepted that God worked that way (1 Kings 19:13-18), most of the Laodiceans do not.

It should be noted that the Laodicean groups are not false churches, but are not Philadelphian. Jesus specifically warned those of Laodicea to, "anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see" (Revelation 3:12). How God works with dreams, and that in the end times they should heed a true prophet of God, is not something that the Laodiceans are willing to see. Yet, Jesus also specifically told those of Laodicea to "be zealous and repent" (Revelation 3:19).

Perhaps I should mention that a fourth person later told me her dream, and I provided her an interpretation, but she would not accept it and did not become part of the CCOG. Not all respond to messages, via dreams or otherwise.

I believe that certain dreams are truly partial confirmations that the Continuing Church of God was to lead (two dreams happened prior to CCOG’s formation), and now is leading, the final phase of the work. The truths that we teach should be accepted as the major proof:

45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. (John 8:45)

Believe the truth, at least for the truth's sake. Christians are to believe and know the truth (1 Timothy 4:3). The truth sets Christians free (John 8:32) from all types of error (including Laodicean ones, cf. Revelation 3:14-22).

A Fourth and Fifth Dreamer

Aleksandar 'Sasha' Veljic sent the following from Serbia in 2017:

Dear Bob,

For the first time in my 25 years of being in the Church of God, I have finally experienced an enthusiastic embrace worldwide that we make a joint humbling before God and ask Him to open more doors and intervene in our various problems.  You said on the Sabbath in Kenya that you hoped this was the Church I thought I became part of when I was baptized in 1992.  Indeed, this is the Church I believed I became part of back then.

Another fulfilled dream.  I learned on February 26th that another dream was fulfilled.  I used to be very cautious about dreams because I thought that they might be just figments of our human imaginations (and, as you know, the former hierarchies strongly discouraged deriving any conclusions from our dreams).  So, the fact that dreams can be used as a message from God is a totally new thing to me, even though it has been in the Bible all along.  Even that aspect shows you why I felt distrustful and weary of any hierarchy.  All of those hierarchies impended the work of God in many ways.  Anyhow, this is what Ondigo wrote me on February 26th:

„I remember several occasions when fasting has helped me. Before you came to Kenya, I fasted for you and Bob's coming. On the same night after fasting, I saw in a dream Bob smearing oil on my body and some pure water like a waterfall dropped on my head.   I have never told anybody that dream because I usually do not tell people my dreams. Imagine, I did not know that I would be ordained so I think it was the fulfillment of the dream".

So, Fred Ochieng had a dream about your path lit with light and Ondigo Ochieng had a dream I have just quoted.  Amazing.

Best regards,


Notice that Sasha was somewhat of a dream skeptic, but for a time realized that the Bible often told about dreams.

The situation with Nimrod Ondigo Ochieng is interesting. He attended the Nairobi conference in 2014 and no one was ordained with oil then--there were no ordinations at that conference (nor was I involved in any ordinations in another earlier trip to Africa)--so it was not like there was a precedent. The comment about pure water dropping on his head would seem to be a reference to the prayer I gave during his anointing (he was anointed as a deacon) and the receipt of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we had another confirmed dream associated with the Continuing Church of God.

Here is a written report from Frederick Ochieng (who is not related to Nimrod Ondigo Ochieng) on his dreams as well:

Dear pastor

Greetings pastor.  I believe you are doing good though you are having great thrust of fulfilling Matthew 28:19 of which we must do before the return of Christ. ...

I had two dreams

1. Before our family joined CCOG my father was then working with voice in the Wilderness Church of God. When I was sleeping I had a dream and in my dream I saw a light and the light was not normal, the one who was standing by the was You pastor Bob according to my dream. Then I had voice shouting, "Arise you who are sleeping, for the Lord is near." I again I heard another voice shouting, "Come up Evans and let us do the work we are called to do." I then saw a man dressed in white clothes join hands with my father walking together towards a very big lake then I woke up. 

2: In my second dream some weeks after my first dream and in my second dream I saw almost the same dream and now this was in New Zealand. I did not know about the CCOG group in New Zealand before I had the dream.


Related to the first dream, he had that in October 2013. The next month, his father telephoned me. He also knew my name from articles I wrote that were published in the Global Church News and the Living Church News. Eventually I arranged to meet with him and leaders of various Church of God groups in Kenya in April 2014.

In early 2014, Frederick's father Evans Ochieng came with the Continuing Church of God. When he came, he came with about 260 people from Kenya and Tanzania. His son Frederick's dream showed that we would have much growth in Africa. He and his father listened to God.

In time leaders from other African countries, who did not know Evans Ochieng (nor about the dream), contacted me. We held a conference that many COG leaders from six African countries attended in 2017 (I had not heard of Frederick's dreams until that time).

As of mid-2022, we have over twenty times as many in Africa than when Frederick Ochieng had his dream. So, the dream of working the lake was confirmed--Evans Ochieng and I became a productive "fishers of men" (Matthew 4:19).

As far as New Zealand goes, the first congregation that came with the CCOG was the group in New Zealand.

When I asked Frederick Ochieng about New Zealand, he said he knew nothing about New Zealand and any connection with the CCOG prior to his dream. Those in New Zealand have been heavily involved in supporting the work to reach people around the world.

The New Zealanders have been the primary editors of our church publications, developed a website, put up and managed our Bible News Prophecy Flipboard page, greatly assisted with the Study the Bible Course, supported various aspects of message production, and produce our Bible News Prophecy online radio channel.

Frederick's dream may have been telling him that I (Bob Thiel) was working with those in New Zealand to fulfill Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19-20 to reach the world.

A Sixth and Seventh Dreamer from India

On December 30, 2012, the host of a group in India contacted me about my departure two days earlier from the Living Church of God. He corresponded with me off and on for years after that.

In December of 2018, he informed me that he and his group were convinced that they wanted to be part of the Continuing Church of God.

I asked him to combine some of his December emails to give others insight into his background and some of the process the group went through. Here is what was finalized on December 12, 2018 (bolding his):

Dear Sir,

I was baptised in 1995 by Pastor Daniel Zechariah of the WCG and he still probably lives at Hyderabad. My association began sometime in 1987 and I completed the Bible course in 1991.

When the WCG went through the changes, I also left it, without anything against it though.

My wife and I were married in the Manipur Baptist Convention Centre Church in 1998 when I left WCG as it was for all practical purposes another Protestant church. The articles in The Plain Truth magazine became very watered down from the crystal clear pictures I used to get in reading it and the comfort I got from reading The Good News. I also could not pay the subscription. I had been paying my tithes to the Hyderabad office. I read the weekly paper publication of the WCG under Tkach Jr. one after another with pages and pages of photos of ministers being excommunicated with the hope that they be repentant! That was the time I left, and joined the Baptists. However during the time I heard a voice in a dream that the Sabbath remains and is valid.

In 2003 I went to Hawaii, USA to attend the Haggai Leadership Training Institute in Evangelism. But the teaching of Kingdom of God was ever in me. I visited quite of lot of Baptist churches preaching the Good News of the Kingdom of God and in the various Haggai Leadership Seminars.

In time emails and the internet began to boom and I went searching for what became of the WCG which was turning Grace Communion International.

I stumbled onto a web page that listed all the Churches of God. It was an exit group. The conversation was nothing near edifying as a CoG should be. Some of the criticisms were so silly they helped me get closer to target.

So I began to read through the profiles of PCG, RCG, UCG, LCG and others, I followed Dr. Thiel’s opinion on the true Church. I went to LCG because Dr. Thiel was in there.

When I saw that the Sabbath continues to be valid I joined the LCG. While the ministers were arriving, I had a dream again. I was at the airport and I saw not an L-shape but a C-shape route on the ground which I could not comprehend nor tried to understand at the time.

I had considered the “C” could be a “U” depending on one’s view point! What if it meant the United CoG? They write pretty good too! But when I read that Victor Kubik went for a small birthday celebration, I changed my mind. I decided to stick to the 18 truths that you wrote about (and it was a sermon topic) and decided to invite LCG ministers since you also showed your preference for LCG at the time.

From my dream, I wrote to {CCOG elder} Sasha Veljic and told him that perhaps the C represents “Continuing“. And that dream was well before the CCOG formed.

My wife is also a believer. [She said because the Baptist Pastor had prayed, “Our Mother in heaven”, this was an important reason for leaving the Baptist Church!] She was baptised by LCG minister, Mr. Rajendra Rao Moses.

Later on when Dr. Thiel moved out of LCG, I too found LCG talking of things that were hard to reconcile with the Bible. For further confirmation, I began to study again.

In the meantime, differences started popping up and we were made to decide.

So we also moved out, or to put it more politely, LCG left us.

Early this year an associate left us; one who I put in charge to verify the credentials of ministers and churches. He communicated with Gaylyn Bonjour  and [with you too!] concluded that since Gaylyn Bonjour did not intend any ministerial credentials upon you when Gaylyn Bonjour prayed for Double Portion on you, that your position is invalid. But since he was in habitual error, I felt he misunderstood. It made me sit up and now I am quite convinced of CCoG and that is our story. I disagreed with him.

I must also thank for his [and Peter Salemi’s] rather unkind mention of Dr. Thiel, in this endeavor.

I explained as a host to the group who are former members of LCG the following:

1) Isaac did not intend Jacob to be blessed. But it happened. And Isaac reiterated, the blessings once bestowed cannot be undone.

2) Jacob then dreamt of a ladder that ascended to heaven and saw thousands and thousands of angels descending and ascending. God had endorsed the blessing made by Isaac upon him.

3) Elijah said to Elisha that his request was difficult. Nevertheless, the later used the former’s cloth to cross over the Jordan.

4) Reaching a town he encountered some unruly children who made fun of him. Thereupon she-bears came out and silenced them.

5) I also told them of a US lady senator who carried a gun close to her chest. It was obviously for self defence. But while changing her clothes the gun accidentally went off and the bullet pierced her jaws and head . She was pronounced dead upon arrival at the hospital. This was not intended, but it was an irreversible action.

Gaylyn Bonjour may not have intended you to be a minister who exceeds in rank over the presiding Evangelist.

After these things were discussed, the net was then busy with discussion on the scenario on how the elderly Evangelist would have handled the issue of having a younger bypass him.

But his [Gaylyn Bonjour’s] pronouncement too cannot be reversed. And you have asked him this question too.

This in a way has settled an unsettled question in my mind.

So I would like to work together as we wish to be part of CCOG.

With regards,

K. Sani Mao.

Perhaps I should add that in the Fall of 2011, two ministers of LCG told me prior to the double-portion anointing by Gaylyn Bonjour that I did NOT need to have hands laid on me to be a prophet, nor did I need any type of credentialing. However, I told them that I felt, biblically (e.g. 2 Timothy 1:6), that some type of laying on of hands anointing was needed (as God’s ‘credentialing’ through the laying on of hands was needed if the role was not just for a dream or something). Furthermore, I prayed in November 2011 that if being a prophet was or was not God’s role for me that something would happen in my trip to LCG’s Charlotte office the next month to make this clearer.

And on December 15, 2011, while anointing me, LCG minister Gaylyn Bonjour prayed that God would grant me a double-portion of His Spirit. When I asked Gaylyn Bonjour if he had ever thus prayed for that for anyone else, he said “No, I never have.” He then said that this was reminiscent of what happened to Elisha and the passing of the mantle in 2 Kings (2:9-13). He also stated then (and later) that what he did could not be undone and that he understood what this could mean. He again brought these points up to me on March 23, 2012 and seemed to emphasize the passing of the mantle to me then (for more details, see How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God).

Because of intentionally broken promises and integrity issues, which came to a head on December 28, 2012, I had to leave LCG and CCOG was formed (for more details as to why, see Why Bob Thiel Left the Living Church of God).

As far as CCOG goes, it has the fruits Jesus said would help one determine whether it has a true or false prophet (cf. Matthew 7:15-20)--CCOG is now considered to be the fourth largest xWCG group (see also Letter to the Brethren: December 6, 2018).

Anyway, so in India there is another 'dreamer' that looks to have had a dream related to COGwriter or the CCOG.

Additionally, there was another dream from one in India named Premkumar Ninthoujam.

Here is a report from Continuing Church of God elder Alexsandar ‘Sasha’ Veljic, who lives in Serbia. He recounts something that happened when he was there on Friday, January 11, 2019:

Plus, on Friday, during a counseling session, one of the members here said he had a dream before my coming. A hand on which an oil was poured was there to anoint Sani Mao. And that member told others not to worry, that I would come against all odds.

Now, let me write more about that, and add some background, to make it a bit clearer.

Because Alexsandar ‘Sasha’ Veljic was having travel and visa issues, some were concerned that he would not be able to make the trip to Manipur. Premkumar Ninthoujam had a dream that he would make it--and he did. But the more unusual part of that dream was that the person dreamed that Sani Mao was going to be anointed with oil. Well, no one in Manipur was aware that Sasha and I discussed the idea of anointing Sani Mao as a deacon--presuming after Sasha arrived and reviewed the situation there, it seemed appropriate. Anyway, on January 12, 2019, Elder Veljic did anoint Sani Mao with oil and laid hands upon him to be a deacon.

So, another associated with CCOG had a dream that was confirmed by subsequent events.

God has been using dreams for at least seven l associated with CCOG.

If only two of the confirmed dreams were the result of something from God (cf. Matthew 18:16), then this should be considered as Divine validation of Bob Thiel prophetic status. And since no other COG has God’s confirmation of a prophetic leader like this, this is something that any claiming to be true Church of God Christians should pay attention to. And, of course, anyone who accepts and truly understands biblical church governance realizes that prophets are only considered second to apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 4:11)–so if there are no accepted apostles today, those outside of CCOG should consider that they need to properly respond to Philadelphian biblical church governance (see also The Bible, Peter, Paul, John, Polycarp, Herbert W. Armstrong, Roderick C. Meredith, and Bob Thiel on Church Government).

How many times does God need to intervene that way for Christian people to believe and support CCOG? (See also Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?)

Hopefully, you have already decided that since the Bible prophesied that God would use dreams in the end times (e.g. Acts 2:14-18), and since several associated with CCOG have had dreams that have been confirmed, you accept that dreams are one way God has shown His favor on CCOG as the best representative of the Philadelphian portion of the Church of God in this Laodicean time.

An Eighth (and Earlier) Dreamer 

In May 2022, after having a dream that reminded him of an earlier one, CCOG evangelist Evans Ochieng sent the following emails:

Pastor Dr Bob,

Greetings from kenya ...

Last night I had vision of the work in Malawi and Mozambique and since I was planning to visit the two countries in June or July, it will force me to visit the two countries and stay there for almost one month to visit all the congregations. That was my plan during my last visit but the rain was too much and roads were totally poor. I’m also planning to visit Ethiopia if the country is peaceful. Recently I received a call from pastor Sawek that one of the congregations in South rift valley needs my visit and I hope we will visit the congregation this month if they are ready. Evans.

Pastor Dr Bob,

Greetings from kenya. Pastor there is something that I didn't tell you when I was joining continuing church of God. I didn't say it because I thought it was just a dream. When I was joining continuing church of God, I saw a small white handkerchief. It was very white and in in it was written continuing church of God. When I was still looking it, it enlarged till become bigger. Then I woke up. I thought it was a dream. Then recently I saw the same handkerchief standing in Malawi just the same I saw it in kenya. The same size and enlarged like before. After a short time I saw if I was baptizing so many people in Malawi. After that I heard a voice telling me that you are a loved man.

The reason why I knew that it was a vision, you know very well that when I was joining CCOG, I came out one person and as I continue talking with people about CCOG, the church continues to grow very fast and right now, the church has expanded highly. Not because of my strength or any strength from a man but from GOD. I'm saying this because all people who God call in CCOG are working tirelessly to preach the gospel. I can see the work which is going on in rift valley, in kisii and in Nyanza, Pastors are really working. So what I saw about that handkerchief is the same to what I saw in kenya. The only different is, when I saw it in kenya, I didn't see that I'm baptizing many people. And voice I didn't here. Now if I saw it in Malawi and the kind of baptism I saw , tells me clearly that it is a vision. That is the reason why I want go to Malawi for almost one month preaching and visitation. Evans

Pastor Dr Bob, Greetings from kenya. The voice stated that Dr Bob is a beloved man and that was the end of it. There was nothing added on top of that. Evans

The first dream was apparently in November 2013 (Evans could not recall the exact date), whereas the second was May 13, 2022. Evans Ochieng concluded that he was told he needed to quickly go to Malawi, so he left May 27, 2022 to stay one month (which is several times as long as most of his previous trips to Malawi).

On June 23, 2022, after many baptisms and visits on that trip, Evans Ochieng sent the followiing:

Pastor Dr Bob,

Greetings from Malawi. Today I have full network. I travelled to Lilongwe for covid test. I thanked GOD for a wonderful work He has done in Malawi and Mozambique since I came in Malawi on 27th May till today. I can’t imagine or measure the kind of work GOD haa done here. I’ve confirmed the vision given to me by GOD before I started my trip to Malawi and Mozambique. I can’t say much but THE ALMIGHTY GOD will reward Himself those who contributed in this work to be fulfilled. Thank you very much Dr Bob Bob and the brethren who contributed in this work. Wonderful work has been done in Malawi and Mozambique.

Those who turned and backslided have come back to the church and the people who were baptized were as follows:-










God has opened the doors for the gospel to move but labourers are few.

When I was visiting all congregations in Malawi and Mozambique,  there are so many  things that needed to be done.

Last time Dr Bob provided many iron sheets for many congregations that has made Malawi and Mozambique to make a better step of having good halls where brethren can do the services on Sabbath and annual sabbaths.  When I was moving around I noticed that some congregations are still need cement to make a proper and strong hall.  …

When I was in Mozambique, I noticed that most of the church members have not gone to school.  So we discussed with our Deacon in Mozambique,  James Rabson to help the members both adults and young ones how to read and write. And to learn English language so that they can read properly. …

I thanked Dr Bob of giving us funds to help me, Radson and 4 Deacons to visit people,  congregations and backslided ones throughout Malawi and Mozambique.

May THE ALMIGHTY GOD continue to bless and support the work in Africa and other countries worldwide.

God's Spirit is working in the CCOG.

A Nineth, Tenth, and Eleventh Dreamer 

Sometimg in 2020, Beverley Bivens had a dream involving Aleksandar 'Sasha' Veljic. In this dream Sasha was being met in the USA by people in the CCOG (Continuing Church of God). But he walked past them, but instead went with a different group. This is basically what happened later. On February 24, 2023, Sasha left the CCOG for another group called the 'Hope of Israel Worldwide Church of God.' Interestingly, in early 2024 Sasha came to the USA to meet with those outside of the CCOG. He later had two strokes and died in the USA on March 20, 2024. Beverley Biven, herself died on June 28, 2021, without telling me her dream. Her sister Edith Bivens conveyed the dream information to me on April 4, 2024. And Theresa DiLiddo brought that dream up and told me on April 24, 2024 that she learned of it at the Feast of Tabernacles in October 2023.

On April 15, 2024, a leader in Africa sent me an email that said:

CCOG ... I wanted to quit to either mt.zion or Zionist church of God but God has been warming me through dreams that l am following the wrong way. l Also was made to dream about the hope of Israel world wide church of God that it was not good. Glory unto the name our sovereign supreme God. ... All the pastors want CCOG ...

However, the above dreamer, like Jonah, decided against doing what he said God told him to do. "Many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14) since many rebel. Do not be such a rebel yourself. Accept that God does sometimes use dreams and He has done so with several associated with the Continuing Church of God.

James Martenet had a dream in November 2020 and a nearly identical one in the Spring of 2022. Here is some of what he reported about it:

About month after FoT 2020 ... would be the first ... I was in a field of wheat that stretched to all horizons. It was a sunny day during harvest, and the wheat was golden, beautifully golden. There was a master of the harvest on a wagon, and there were reapers, the man on the wagon had a very black beard, was fit and had perfect teeth, and smiled broadly.

The reapers were also similar to him, and they all sang a song in the dream I understood, it was so beautiful. The reapers and the master of the harvest seemed superhuman, they were perfect of form. There were other normal folks, many whom I  recognize from CCOG, and all of us had bags to carry the wheat the reapers were cutting, to the wagon. Some had large bags, others small, and some had holes in their bags. Some had bags that were empty, and they were not helping, just being busybodies, getting in the way of the ones who were working, but they could not stop the workers who were working from accomplishing the work of carrying the bags, even if they tried to…those working just kept right on being productive.

Bob Thiel had a tremendous load, it was ridiculous in size, so large that I wondered, how could he really get anything done with that tremendous load. But he was. Meanwhile some others also had large burdens, Shirley Gestro was one of them. The Master of the harvest asked why are not all the workers working? Why do some have empty bags? And he kept reminding us of the time.

He was asking me. I said I do not know what they are doing. He asked why are not more helping ... Bob Thiel..., then directly, why am I not helping more? I had a bag with a hole in it,  I asked what can I do, and he told me to use my talents, and to get to work, while there is still daylight. Then my bag was fixed and full, and it kept getting fuller as those of us who had full bags placed them on the wagon, where the master of the harvest smiled at us and said “good job”. The Sun was in the afternoon, it was before sunset, but it was definably setting. The Man said, “work while you still can”, and I woke up. ...

The last time {I had the harvest dream} was in the spring of this year {2022}. Each of the dreams was slightly different: the sun was moving closer to sunset. In the last one the sun had moved closer to sunset, and in ... them {both} there was a sense of urgency.

Basically, James Martenet took that repeated dream to mean that he should support what God is doing in the CCOG. He has been assisting in video and radio spots since 2022.

Jesus said:

2 The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. (Luke 10:2)

Do your part to support the work and also pray for more laborers for the harvest.

Other Dreamers

Around 2015, a woman emailed me who was associated with a Laodicean COG and asked me to interpret a dream for her. I gave her an interpretation, but she did not act on it. I have not heard from her since giving the interpretation she asked for.

It sort of reminds me of the following with Jeremiah:

1 Now all the captains of the forces, Johanan the son of Kareah, Jezaniah the son of Hoshaiah, and all the people, from the least to the greatest, came near 2 and said to Jeremiah the prophet, "Please, let our petition be acceptable to you, and pray for us to the Lord your God, for all this remnant (since we are left but a few of many, as you can see), 3 that the Lord your God may show us the way in which we should walk and the thing we should do."

4 Then Jeremiah the prophet said to them, "I have heard. Indeed, I will pray to the Lord your God according to your words, and it shall be, that whatever the Lord answers you, I will declare it to you. I will keep nothing back from you."

5 So they said to Jeremiah, "Let the Lord be a true and faithful witness between us, if we do not do according to everything which the Lord your God sends us by you. 6 Whether it is pleasing or displeasing, we will obey the voice of the Lord our God to whom we send you, that it may be well with us when we obey the voice of the Lord our God."

7 And it happened after ten days that the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah. 8 Then he called Johanan the son of Kareah, all the captains of the forces which were with him, and all the people from the least even to the greatest, 9 and said to them, "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, to whom you sent me to present your petition before Him: 10 'If you will still remain in this land, then I will build you and not pull you down, and I will plant you and not pluck you up. For I relent concerning the disaster that I have brought upon you. 11 Do not be afraid of the king of Babylon, of whom you are afraid; do not be afraid of him,' says the Lord, 'for I am with you, to save you and deliver you from his hand. 12 And I will show you mercy, that he may have mercy on you and cause you to return to your own land.' (Jeremiah 42:1-12)

1 Now it happened, when Jeremiah had stopped speaking to all the people all the words of the Lord their God, for which the Lord their God had sent him to them, all these words, 2 that Azariah the son of Hoshaiah, Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the proud men spoke, saying to Jeremiah, "You speak falsely! The Lord our God has not sent you to say, 'Do not go to Egypt to dwell there.' (Jeremiah 43:1-2)

In addition, there was another person that I received a report about in 2019:

Out of all the churches of God u were the first I heard. At this time I didn't know there were other COG. Never heard of them before.

I have always had dreams and I can interpret my own dreams.

When I first listened to you on u-tube I didn't really believe you because I came from a protestant background and Saturday worship was for the Jews only and we are under the new covenant.

So I went to bed that night after listening to you and I had this dream. What I tell you is the truth. I am held accountable for what leaves my mouth.

Here was my dream--------

A big black snake was out in the middle of this field I was walking through and it kept getting larger til it had me in its grips and I could not get out. Then this man jumps out of nowhere with a sword and cuts the snake into smaller pieces into smaller snakes that ran away and freed me.

I woke up it was disturbing and I knew that my protestant faith had me in its deceptive grips. I then knew the Lord was trying to free me and you were the sword the TRUTH.

I have listened to u for about a year now. I have listened to other COG's also after I found out there were more.

I know this has been a long letter and I know you are busy but I just wanted to say that if God called me now he is still calling others. They also may here him knock and not know what it is yet. He could reach others another way but this is how he presented himself to me. (email to COGwriter@aol.com 1/9/2019 10:06:09 AM Pacific Standard Time)

The name was withheld and that individual, while hopefully knowing what to do, apparently has not yet decided the particular COG mattered that much and is not (yet) part of CCOG.

In 2020, two women emailed me about dreams, with one also writing me in 2021.

The first was related to two dreams a woman's daughter had. The woman asked for my interpretation. I told her that one perhaps had to do with the two witnesses and the other about her need to take action in the family's spiritual life. She was overjoyed with the insight and interpretation. She is part of CCOG, and lives in Canada.

The same woman also claimed to have a dream herself, in the Summer of 2021, that God showed her that I was to be one of the two witnesses. She wrote:

Hi Dr. Thiel! ... My confirmation of you being one of the witnesses was this summer, I was caught up in the spirit, and there was a council of elders and you were there and God asked the two witnesses to stand and they were anointed with the will of God and the word Pentecost echoed upon the anointing (Email November 17, 2021)

It was on Pentecost that the Apostle Peter reminded people that God would use dreams and prophets in the last days (see also Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?). We will see if the above is a prophetic dream if God confirms that as foretold in Revelation 11:3. (See also Who Are The Two Witnesses?)

The second woman told of a dream that was about her feet being dirty, while she saw a vision of pure and still waters. I told her I was not certain if it was inspired. But if it was, the sand and dirt on her feet would suggest that some part of her seemed to be too attached to this world. But her vision of something better showed that she seemed to know that she needed to come out of the world more than she had. I told her that the statements about waters are reminiscent of Psalm 23:2 and Jesus' words in John 7:37, and that she should take action (like baptismal counseling as she asked about that). A couple of weeks later, she did ask for baptismal counseling.

On May 20, 2020, a man sent the following related to a dream he had in late 2018:

Dr Thiel. I have spent most of the last 20 nights reading and shifting through your website. I have just finished page 74 of your booklet “ Continuing History of the COG “ , and I follow along effortlessly. It all makes so much sense.

Wonderful and incredible !!! Praise God. I thank you for ability to listen to our Lord God and I thank Him that He lead me to you.

On April 9, 2020 I had “ awake dreams” as I was falling asleep, thoughts and virtual visual questions in my head swirling with questions about HWA and UCG / RCG / LCG. I could not get the answers to my questions or wonderments. I documented all my questions. I was home for FDUB and I will review this weekend and forward to you one day.

All my questions - I have found the answers in your materials. God lead me and I Thank God for His work through you. Only He could have lead you to this level. You must be a prophet of His and anointed by Him. I believe you are the one carrying the mantle. Your work is Bible based and not of your own opinion. This comes through in your writing.

On April 30 ; as I emailed you below , He lead me to your site. I apologize for the Brother comment , but I had not read any of your material and had just scanned the page and found your newsletter email submit box.

I have introduced your material to my close friend, XXXXXX, whom introduced me to UCG in fall 2018 and although it resonated with me it just did not complete the holes for me , I continued to search. April 30 , 2020 I found your site. ...

His will and not ours be done but I am a very willing participant if that is His will. I am so regretted about my divorce but now that I look back she blindly follows Rome and she abandoned our marriage and remarried a Catholic. Our two sons now keep the Sabbath and starting to read your material. The boys and I are very close and I live life as a single man, by the Commandments to the best as I can.

XXXXX and I both live in XXXXX and are very interested in your message and congregation. I will follow up with you on this next week in order to get to know each other and find out about your on boarding of people like us into your flock. Her and I both are pouring through your materials and will start following your weekly Shabbat service outlines. As one born into a Protestant family and then converted at 21 and married into a French Canadian Roman Catholic family, and once I began to talk to my strict Baptist born again Grandfather in his late age; ( and I quote you on page 74) “and started to read the Bible for myself, I quickly realized that the Vatican did not always teach what the Bible said, and ultimately realized that the true Church of God taught more truths of the Bible than any other group (including the Protestant groups).”

I had lost the Spirit for these 20 years. Dead. No feeling. I did not know what was wrong. We both prayed to Mary all the time ? I finally walked away from Rome and submersed myself into the Bible ; and the week I did I had deep , intense dreams of floating endlessly through space and time ( not saying it was God as I have read your dream comments ) each night for a week and I woke up four nights in a row , sweating and frightened and then on the Saturday night into Sunday ; I had a soft gentle dream about XXXXX. We were in a garden together and we seemed to be a couple. Dressed in white. Her and I had never talked outside of work before this nor had any personal relationship at this point. I began to open my eyes to her UCG booklets and then on to the work of HWA and I has lead me to seek the truth. All the answers. Her and do Bible study together most evenings on the phone. We believe that we have found the answers to my questions on the CCOG site.

Anyway the dreams were in December 2018 and my life has never been so wonderful since. Thank all to God and His son. Your website has taken my truth seeking to the next level. And I thank you for your willingness to work with Him and His Church of God.

Thank you Dr Thiel and may the Grace and Peace Of The Lord God continue to bless and lead you.

Another Fulfilled Dream?

Here is something from the CCOG Letter to the Brethren: December 31, 2020:

I am writing this section from Doha, Qatar on December 28, 2020.

After going to bed on the night of December 26, 2020, I had a dream.

Because of airline connection issues, I was concerned whether or not I would be able to make the flight to Qatar.

In my dream, there were complications that made it look like I might not make the connecting flight. In the dream the complications were stressful, but without details. In the dream I prayed about this. I also prayed that if this trip and other trips I have made related to behind-the-scenes aspects of the final phase of the work was God’s will, that: 1) if there were stressful problems which looked like might cancel the trip 2) that I would make my connection to Qatar, and 3) that I would pass negative for the airport required COVID test.

(I did not want to be quarantined for two weeks in the event of a false positive. Recently, CCOG evangelist Evans Ochieng got a false positive COVID test which delayed his ability to fly back to Kenya from Malawi.)


As it turned out, there were two different people with two different, yet seemingly very serious, health issues on that first flight, which delayed it. It looked like one or both of them (they were not related) may need to be taken off the flight or even treated on the ground as some came aboard the flight related to each of them. While their situations appeared treatable, I was concerned that this may cause me to miss the connection to Qatar, so I began to make contingency plans (as one flight I was on years ago was delayed over 10 hours because of a health-concern of one passenger). Anyway, today was the best time to go on this trip as far as a lot of details were concerned. Plus because how short the trip was, I would have had to completely cancel it if I missed the connecting flight to Qatar. Yet, although my first plane left late, I was able to make the connection.

So, since the first two parts of the dream were confirmed, I strongly suspect that the dream was from God.

Jeremiah was inspired to write:

28 The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; (Jeremiah 23:28)

That is why I am doing so.

Slightly before midnight, I got my required COVID test.

December 29, 2020

It is now December 29, 2020. I have been wondering about the results of my COVID test as they were delayed. I had been told that they were supposed to take five or six hours, but instead after thirteen hours they have not arrived.

So, I wondered if perhaps something was wrong and perhaps the results would say I had COVID-19. I was NOT worried about the disease itself (as I have successfully treated several with it), but was concerned about God's will for something I believed His Spirit, consistent with John 16:11-12, led me to do. I did not want to be working on something of my imagination, but wanted to be sure that the groundwork we were doing was what God wanted us to do.

Anyway finally, after much waiting I got the results of my COVID test.

It was negative. And on this trip I was able to accomplish some things that I believe will have long-term impact on the final phase of the work.

So, yes I believe that the dream did come from God.

Should I have not known before it was fully confirmed?

Not necessarily. The VAST MAJORITY of dreams are not from God, even if they have some accuracy.

Notice also what the prophet Jeremiah wrote:

6 And Jeremiah said, "The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 7 'Behold, Hanamel the son of Shallum your uncle will come to you, saying, "Buy my field which is in Anathoth, for the right of redemption is yours to buy it."' 8 Then Hanamel my uncle's son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the Lord, and said to me, 'Please buy my field that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin; for the right of inheritance is yours, and the redemption yours; buy it for yourself.' Then I knew that this was the word of the Lord. (Jeremiah 32:6-8)

So, even though Jeremiah wrote that the word of the Lord had come to him, he was not certain until it came to pass.

Now that that all three parts of the dream were confirmed (which reminded me what happened with Gideon for him to do a certain aspect of God's work involving him and others: Judges 6:36-40), I consider that God has confirmed that the behind-the-scenes aspects of the final phase of the work we have been working on for many years was God’s will and should continue.

Essentially, this has to do with making mainly low-level contacts with leaders and others on most of the continents of the world which I have long believed will assist in future aspects of the final phase of the work that God wanted done.

While the latest overall trip accomplished much of what we felt needed to happen, one thing I can share was a meeting I had hoped to have with CCOG interested parties from Algeria in Qatar did not happen because of COVID and travel issues--but perhaps God will open the door to Algeria in a different way. Jesus often opens doors (cf. Revelation 3:7-13) in ways we do not always expect.

For those wondering about CCOG and Israel, some behind-the-scenes work has included contacts with Jewish leaders in Israel as well. And, it may be one or more in Israel that will become the first of those that will go from behind the scenes to public in the next few years.

And, it may be one or more in Israel that will become the first of those that will go from 'behind-the-scenes' to public in the next few years.

While the elements of this dream will not seem dramatic enough for most who call themselves Christian, God sometimes goes with "a still small voice" (1 Kings 19:11-12). And that "voice" (via a confirmed dream) confirmed for me to continue what I have considered to be long-term aspects of the final phase of the work.

Yes, even if not dramatic enough form many, God said He would use dreams in the last days (Acts 2:16-17) and has been doing so.

Peter's Vision and Confirmation through Cornelius

Notice something from Acts:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. (Acts 10:9)

The 6th hour equates to 12:00 pm today.

10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance (Acts 10:9-10)

Before going further, notice what happened to Peter. He fell into a trance around lunch-time. What is that?

The Greek word translated as trance in Engligh above is ekstasis. Danker and Bauer's Greek Lexicon says that word means:

1 a state of consternation or profound emotional experience to the point of being beside onself ...

2 a state of being in which consciousness is wholly or partially suspended.

That sounds somewhat like sleep or some other similar feeling.

Interestingly, the Contemporary English Version renders Acts 10:10 as:

10 and became very hungry. While the food was being prepared, he fell sound asleep and had a vision.

That sounds like a message in a dream from God.

Anyway, the end result of this vision and message from an angel to the Gentile Cornelius (Acts 10:1-8), is that Gentiles were converted to Christianity and baptized (Acts 10:44-48).

Now, not every one was pleased with this. Let's look at the 11th chapter of Acts:

1 Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. 2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him, 3 saying, "You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!" (Acts 11:1-13)

So, because of not understanding the great commission from Jesus (Matthew 24:14; 28:19-20) and relying on faulty tradition, some were not pleased with what happened regarding Gentiles.

Some Christians and others today criticize the CCOG because we a lot of Gentiles have accepted the truth. While we tend to quote scriptures like Acts 14:27 where it says God has "opened the door of faith to the Gentiles" (and sometimes dreams) Peter pointed to visions:

4 But Peter explained it to them in order from the beginning, saying: 5 "I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object descending like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came to me. 6 When I observed it intently and considered, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 7 And I heard a voice saying to me, 'Rise, Peter; kill and eat.' 8 But I said, 'Not so, Lord! For nothing common or unclean has at any time entered my mouth.' 9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, 'What God has cleansed you must not call common.' 10 Now this was done three times, and all were drawn up again into heaven. (Acts 11:4-10)

You might be thinking that since there was a vision, that you would have accepted Peter's testimony then.

If so, good.

But let me add that many still criticize CCOG for explaining visionary dreams from God, but the fact is that is one way God has worked for millennia.

In CCOG's case, not only have I had a couple of prophetic dreams, others I did not know had some which should confirm mine to any interested in acting on the truth.

Now consider that in the light of Peter's further testimony:

11 At that very moment, three men stood before the house where I was, having been sent to me from Caesarea. 12 Then the Spirit told me to go with them, doubting nothing. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered the man's house. 13 And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, 'Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, 14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.' (Acts 11:11-14)

So, Peter conveyed that a Gentile also had a vision which confirmed his.

Have you ever wondered what it would have been like to been there hearing this?

Well, we have seen essentially the same thing in the 21st century with dreams and confirmations in the Continuing Church of God.

If you are not sure about the CCOG and want to see interventions like what happened in the first century, again study this article to see how God has similarly worked in the 21st century.

Continuing in Acts:

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" (Acts 11:15-17)

So Peter was trying to make it clear that it was truly God who intervened. We still have to make it clear when God directly intervenes as many still will not accept how God actually works.


18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." (Acts 11:18)

Finally, the critics became quiet. They finally understood that God had a plan for the Gentiles.

But they always should have realized that since they thought that they were God's people and they were knowledgable of the Old Testament. Notice what God inspired Isaiah to write:

60:1 Arise, shine; For your light has come! And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you. 2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, And deep darkness the people; But the Lord will arise over you, And His glory will be seen upon you. 3 The Gentiles shall come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising. (Isaiah 60:1-3)

6 Indeed He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob, And to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’” (Isaiah 49:6)

Yet, these converted Jewish Christians still did not get it.

Furthermore, Christians should realize that today that:

  1. God has historically used dreams (Genesis 20:3-7, 28:10-17, 31:10-13, 31:24, 37:5-10, 40:5-18, 41:1-32; Numbers 12:6; Judges 7:13-15; 1 Kings 3:5-15; Daniel 2:3-45, 4:4-27, 7:1-28; Matthew 1:20-25, 2:12, 2:13, 2:19, 2:22; Acts 16:9).
  2. God specifically says He speaks to prophets with dreams (Numbers 12:6).
  3. That dreams are prophesied for the end times (Acts 2:17)

CCOG is the only COG I am aware of that has had such dreams and had them essentially confirmed by and through others.

The Witness Exists

Although some have chosen not to believe all the facts about how and why the Continuing Church of God began, recall that the Bible teaches:

16 ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ (Matthew 18:16)

19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. (1 Timothy 5:19)

Of course, since Gaylyn Bonjour always freely stated that he did the ‘double-portion’ anointing, there long had been a second witness (though various ones have their own opinion about how to interpret that).

Yet, in addition to various facts, the dream from Fesilafai Leaana looks like perhaps God was planning on making it clearer for true Philadelphians (who are in various organizations/fellowships) to see that the mantle location had truly changed. The Philadelphian mantle is with the Continuing Church of God.

Then, there is also the dream from Senhor Pires and others which is additional divine confirmation.

Two confirmations of my anointing, and four confirmations on the Continuing Church of God coming from dreams that were fulfilled. Plus, we teach the truths from the Bible and biblical prophecy. The witness is there for those who are willing to see it. Those who do not know what to do should pray about it.

Of course, some will discount dreams and their confirmation as proper proof of anything they do not wish to believe.

Test the Spirits, But Be Willing to Believe

The Bible teaches, “test the spirits, whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).  A former board member of the old Global Church of God, who is not part of the Continuing Church of God, wrote the following in late 2013 (bolding his):

When we need to know what is about to happen, God will show us through direct revelation and through the right Scriptures at the right time.
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets (Amos 3:7).

The entire New Testament is like this…

1Cor 14:29-32 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

1Cor 14:37-39 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues…

1Jo 4:1-2 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

Note: If there were no true prophets, there would be no need to “test the spirits”—because every prophet would be a “false prophet”. But because there are both true prophets and false prophets, we need to “test the spirits”…

Many have said, “If God is still providing prophets to the church, where are they?” My church—even my whole denomination—does not recognize any.” Our national leaders do not recognize any either. That is “business as usual” when it comes to prophets. We must remember that God sends prophets to speak His messages and do His work, which often conflicts with the purposes of political and religious leaders...

The gift of prophecy is not vulnerable to electronic surveillance, network failures, police action, restrictive laws or religious censorship. It works in any language, custom or culture. It works no matter what other nations and churches do. (Edwards N. Need Prophets More than Prophecy. Shepherd’s Voice, Fall 2013)

Yes, because a group leader does not recognize a prophet, that does not mean the prophet is not valid. The above article also quoted several scriptures that demonstrate that.

But one that was not quoted above and that all should consider is the following:

41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward. (Matthew 10:41)

So, people should test the spirits (1 John 4:1) and accept the prophet at his word according to Jesus.  People should also “search the scriptures” to see if these things are so (Acts 17:11).

Many do not believe that God would use His Spirit to ever speak through prophets today. (Note, just because I say or write something does NOT mean I am doing so as a prophet. Unless I am properly reading scripture or giving a direct message from God, which I would normally identify as such, I can and do make mistakes. The prophets in the Bible spent relatively little time actually prophesying and were mainly involved in biblical teaching, unless they also had secular jobs.)

Many want more dramatic signs (Matthew 12:38; 1 Kings 19:11-12), but God does not always do it that way (Matthew 12:39-42; 1 Kings 19:12-14).

Can you believe? Or are you like Joseph's brothers who scoffed and treated him with scorn (Genesis 37:19-20).

What About Interpretation?

Some have stated that one needs to be an ordained minister or evangelist or something similar to be able to interpret dreams and/or other messages from God.

But that is not a requirement according to the Bible.

Joseph of Genesis fame was an interpreter of dreams.  In the case of his interpretations of the dreams of the butler and the baker, Joseph's position was that of being a prisoner (Genesis 40:1-22).  The Bible did not list that Joseph had any type spiritual title when he did that.

Daniel was also an interpreter of dreams.  He was a captive and his title may have been an advisor to one or more government leaders (Daniel 1:3-7). FWIW, I was appointed an advisor to the LCG evangelists by its Presiding Evangelist Dr. Roderick C. Meredith in the late Summer of 2005. Spiritually speaking, that title is not less than whatever title Daniel held when he is first listed as interpreting a dream (Daniel 2:1-45).

Furthermore, the Old Testament is actually fairly clear that one does not need any particular title to interpret dreams.  Notice the following:

13 And when Gideon had come, there was a man telling a dream to his companion. He said, "I have had a dream: To my surprise, a loaf of barley bread tumbled into the camp of Midian; it came to a tent and struck it so that it fell and overturned, and the tent collapsed."

14 Then his companion answered and said, "This is nothing else but the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel! Into his hand God has delivered Midian and the whole camp."

15 And so it was, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream and its interpretation, that he worshiped. (Judges 7:13-15)

A 'companion' is not a title and that companion was the interpreter. 

Furthermore, in the New Testament, Pilate's wife is shown to have had a dream and given an interpretation that the Bible does not dispute (Matthew 27:19).  She would not seem to have to have to have some type of biblical title and presumably she was pagan.

Additionally, while the New Testament does not list than an interpreter of dreams has a separate title, it does discuss interpreters of tongues.  Notice what the Apostle Paul wrote:

27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. (1 Corinthians 14:27-28)

Paul is writing to converted Christians here. Thus, I believe that the New Testament allows for any who have God's Holy Spirit to interpret if they feel properly led to. Both myself and Solomona Leaana (husband of Fesilafai Fiso Leaana) who interpreted the dreams in this article were properly baptized and have had hands laid upon us for the Holy Spirit. It was Solomona Leaana who interpreted his wife's dream as specifically referring to me and the Continuing Church of God, thus it was not me who originally did that.  Recall Jesus said that "by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established" (Matthew 18:16). 

While an interpreter may possibly make a mistake, the scripture clearly does not show that one needs to have a title to be a legitimate interpreter.

The Bible Endorses the Leadership of One Man for the Work

Although, as he admitted, in his earliest writings he was confused about the subject of proper church governance, over time, he believed that proper church governance was one of the 18 truths that God restored to the Philadelphia portion of the Church of God through him. He considered this a fundamental, trunk of the tree, doctrine--actually his sermon actually titled The Trunk of the Tree often focused on government.

Here is some of what Herbert W. Armstrong taught:

Jesus came to start God's world, and He came to start it by starting the Church. The Church was started with one Man. ... Now He came to restore the government of God on this earth. ...  It's a matter of government. It's a matter that makes sense all the way through. There had to be a Church Age to have time to train people that God is calling out of the world. ... Now restitution means restoring to a former state or condition, or restoring something that had been taken away and lost. Jesus is coming to restore the GOVERNMENT of God. He's coming to knock Satan off of that throne over the world, and Christ will sit on the throne and rule over all nations. ... And then, finally, we are going to go out to the other planets all over the vast universe. ... In other words, I'm giving you THE TRUNK OF THE TREE—the roots, and the trunk, and the major branches. And the others fill in with the smaller branches, and its smaller branches than that; then the little twigs. And all those are important too. They are all part of the same tree. (Armstrong HW. The Trunk of the Tree. Sermon, October 16, 1983)

The government of God has been restored to the Church, and the government of God has been placed in the Church. You read that in Ephesians 4 and I Corinthians 12. Christ is the head of the Church and under Christ in the administration of the government are an apostle or apostles...And the Church is restored in that form of government. The Sardis Church even didn't have the right form of government (Sermon. Mission of the Philadelphia Church Era by Herbert W. Armstrong given on December 17, 1983).

The government of God is of necessity government from the top down. It cannot be 'government by the consent of the governed' ...

The Presbyterian Church is organized with the presbyters or ministers in control. The Congregational Church delegates top authority to the congregation--"government by the consent of the governed."

And so it goes. The churches of this world of Satan are organized according to humanly devised patterns. But the Bible gives explicit directions in regard to Church government. Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church. God's form of government is, indeed, hierarchical. God the Father is head over Christ--the sole Lawgiver and supreme authority...

To administer these many operations, God--not a vote of the members--"hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers." Or, as stated in more detail in Ephesians 4:11 (RSV): "And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers."

  An apostle is "one sent forth" with Christ's gospel message, including the supervision of proclaiming that message to the world by means and persons other than himself. Also an apostle was given supervision over all the local congregations or churches (I Cor. 16:1). The apostle Paul had oversight over the churches of the Gentile world (II Cor. 11:28).

  The prophets set in the foundation of the Church...

  Evangelists were leading ministers, proclaiming the gospel to the public, even raising up local churches and having supervision over some churches under the apostle. Therefore an evangelist may hold executive functions under the apostle in the Church headquarters or work today. An evangelist is not necessarily stationary. Pastors are stationary pastors over a local church or contingent group of local churches...

Old Testament Israel, the Church of the Old Testament, was also a nation in the world--though not OF the world as God organized it. Its GOVERNMENT was HIERARCHICAL. It was theocratic government--government from the top down--the very opposite of "democracy."

  The CHURCH is organized under theocratic government, hierarchical in form. The members do not set officials in the Church. God sets EVEN THE LAY MEMBERS in the Church (I Cor. 12:18).

Jesus said explicitly, "No MAN CAN come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him" (John 6:44). The world, except for the specially called, is CUT OFF from God!

We have just covered the truth that GOD set officials to serve on the human level under Christ, in the Church. Members do not elect them. Yet in the churches of this world some believe in government by the entire congregation--"democracy"--and call themselves "Congregational." Others have organized themselves into government by ministers or presbytery and call themselves "Presbyterian." " (Mystery of the Ages, Dodd & Mead, 1985, pp.49, 242, 244, 246-247).

The 'loner'-the individual Christian' who wants to climb up into the kingdom some other way than by Christ and His way through His Church-is not being trained in Christ's manner of training, to rule and reign with Christ in his kingdom!… The person who says, 'I will get my salvation alone, outside of the Church' is totally deceived.

"Individual Christians"--Ex-Members

Now what about the "private," or "individual Christian," who says, "I don't want to be a part of the Church--I want to seek my salvation direct and alone with Christ." ...

The Church is ORGANIZED on GOD'S pattern of mutual teamwork and cooperation to function perfectly together. They shall become the GOD FAMILY as it shall exist at the time of Christ's Second Coming. Remember God IS that divine FAMILY! (Mystery of the Ages, pp. 270-271).

God has always, in dealing with humans, worked through ONE MAN at a time — one who believed God! Some in ancient Israel challenged this one-man leadership. Some, like-wise, have challenged it today! First, Moses' own brother and sister challenged his one-man leadership. ... That is the case of Korah, Dathan, Abiram and On.

"And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes ... famous in the congregation, men of renown: And they gathered themselves together against Moses ... Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Eternal is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the Eternal?" (Numbers 16:1-3).

They accused Moses of appointing himself — though there had been ample evidence by the fruits of Moses' leadership and even miracles God did through him, that they were without excuse, just as many are today. What happened to them?

"And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up ... They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation" (verses 32-33). ...

God has always worked through one man, primarily, at a time. God chose David and worked through him. Two of his sons, at different times, conspired to wrest his throne from him. But God protected David, and those sons were destroyed! ...

In founding God's Church, Jesus worked primarily through one man, Peter, even though He originally chose His 12 disciples. Few have ever noticed that Peter was the real leader... "Simeon [PETER] hath declared ..." — And James merely CONFIRMED Peter's decision, making it official. That ought to make clear this crucial 15th chapter of Acts — the one classic example of settling any disputed doctrine in the Church. And, though there were other apostles, God worked primarily through ONE man –PETER! Has God changed? Or is He the SAME still today? ...

The Jerusalem conference (Acts 15) showed that PETER was predominant over even Paul, although Paul was the ONE MAN God worked through primarily in the ministry to gentiles. ... Acts 15. This crucial crux chapter has been misinterpreted, twisted and distorted. I have tried to take space to MAKE IT CLEAR in this article. The other apostles and ministers were all in confusion, arguing and disputing. But CHRIST silenced them by speaking through His CHOSEN chief apostle, PETER! (Armstrong HW, And NOW Christ Sets Church Back On Track Doctrinally. Good News, April 1979).

"The PURPOSE for which Christ built the Church exemplifies its WORK...1) To ANNOUNCE to the world for its witness the coming Kingdom of God...2) To prepare the people to whom God adds to the Church...God has always worked with humans. He has worked with O N E  M A N at a time...The WORK consists of proclaiming the Gospel, by radio, by television, in print" (Armstrong HW. JUST WHAT IS THE WORK? PASTOR GENERAL'S REPORT - VOL.3, NO.6 February 6, 1981).

Many thousands claim that they are faithful to the teachings of the old Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong, but they are not. This is one teaching that many have reasoned around in various ways.

Anyone who had been in the old Worldwide Church of God long enough in the 1980s ,while Herbert W. Armstrong was alive, heard him repeatedly emphasize the importance of proper Church governance. But most did not later accept this teaching, and many of those who thought they did had issues truly understanding and abiding by it. This is despite the fact that those part of the old WCG at least tacitly accepted the idea that governance was one of the 18 truths that Herbert W. Armstrong claimed God used him to restore to the Philadelphia era of the Church of God (more on governance can be found in the article The Bible, Peter, Paul, John, Polycarp, Herbert W. Armstrong, Roderick C. Meredith, and Bob Thiel on Church Government).

You need to know who the O N E  M A N at this time leading the final phase of the work is.

Consider all the COGs in the 21st century. Eliminate those that do not believe in hierarchical governance as they rejected one of the truths that many of their leaders once claimed was from God. Now, eliminate those groups that do not believe that they need to keep the priority of fulfilling Matthew 24:14 their top priority as well as those who have not had any significant reach to the world.

This then leaves about seven claimed COG groups which come to mind: PCG, LCG, RCG, COGaIC, ICG, COGPFK, and CCOG. The first six of which have major problems in their prophetic understandings as well as certain doctrinal problems.

Also, there is no indication from any of the first six that God gave their leaders and/or potential dreams before their respective groups were formed and that those dreams were confirmed. Only one, the CCOG has had God's confirmation of dreams, like the old Radio Church of God had, without the doctrinal and prophetic problems the other groups clearly have (and those are documented in the articles linked to their initials PCG, LCG, RCG, COGaIC, ICG, COGPFK).

Many people today, which perhaps can be best categorized as Laodicean, feel that because they have been hurt by some aspect of hierarchical governance, that they are best not moving to support one with proper 'one man rule' as it is sometimes called. Jesus actually dealt with this when He told the parable of the talents:

14 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord's money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

20 "So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, 'Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.' 21 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, 'Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.' 23 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'

24 "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.'

26 "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

29 'For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' (Matthew 25:14-30)

Many people do not know what to do and they seem to feel that doing nothing is the best response--they are in error. Notice also something else that Jesus taught:

14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing' — and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked — 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. (Revelation 3:14-19)

Jesus DID NOT say you were better off not doing what needed to be done. The Laodiceans are condemned because they have a work that is different than the Philadelphia work--which is to go through the open doors while holding fast to sound doctrine (Revelation 3:7-13).

The following statement from Jesus to the Sadducees seems to also apply to Laodicean Christians:

29 ... Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (Matthew 22:29, KJV)

Laodiceans, in general, act like God's promise of dreams is not a scripture they really know. They also tend to discount God's power being shown in dreams--do not be like them--Jesus condemned that attitude!

Laodicea is made up of two Greek words which basically mean "people decide" or "people judge." These are Christian people who ARE NOT deciding by God's biblical criteria, but their own (often as influenced by others). And while divine interventions like healings can occur among all Christian groups consistent with James 5:13-17, in the end times, dreams are listed as something the Holy Spirit will cause or have manifested in the last days.

Do not be afraid to believe God's word and take action. If you are not supporting the Continuing Church of God because of fear of making a change, consider that the New Testament teaches:

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. (Revelation 21:7-8)

Overcome your fear of taking godly action.

If people once in the old WCG want to see some type of a sign, they should consider accepting the dreams, as they presumably accepted Herbert Armstrong's account of his wife's dream.

And as this article says, yes, I Bob Thiel did have a prophetic dream, it was confirmed, and another had one which her husband concluded was about Bob Thiel, and the Continuing Church of God, which none of us had an idea of when we had our dreams later formed. Some might not want to accept dreams as a sign, but this is what God did for the old Radio Church of God, and people should accept the sign(s) that God gives, as He limits signs to what He wants (Matthew 12:39; Luke 11:29).

Of course dreams are not the most important criteria, as Jesus said about prophets:

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20)

We in the Continuing Church of God have reached people in over 220 countries and territories, and millions of our articles are accessed every year and we have materials in multiple languages, plus also reach multiple thousands over YouTube television and millions over the radio (for more details, see The Final Phase of the Work). While there are other groups that reach people, those that do have serious doctrinal, prophetic, and/or integrity issues that CCOG does not have.

Unlike some of the other groups who needed millions of dollars to reach people, we in the Continuing Church of God have not done it that way.

6 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says the Lord of hosts. (Zechariah 4:6)

Can you believe in God's form of governance and work?

What About Other Spiritual Gifts?

The Bible does teach about other spiritual gifts, such as discernment, which can be related to interpretation:

9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, 10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, 11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. (Philippians 1:9-11)

Notice that Paul tied in real love, true knowledge, and proper discernment with righteousness.  These are all essentially gifts of the Spirit (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:1-11).

Notice also the following:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Not only do we need the gift of faith related to salvation, we need faith to walk the Christian way of life.

The Apostle Paul further taught:

1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts...12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel. (1 Corinthians 14:1, 12)

He further wrote about various spiritual gifts, with some cautions:

1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:..

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:  8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. (1 Corinthians 12:1,4-11)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (Galatians 5:22-26)

True Christians possess one of more of the gifts of the Spirit.  And sometimes, we do not know until later what are spiritual gifts or talents truly are.  But all Christians are to “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18), and knowledge is a spiritual gift (cf. 1 Corinthians 2:10-14).  We should all have love, joy, peace, wisdom, faith, etc.

Notice, however, that while the Apostle Paul teaches that we are to desire the best gifts, that love is what profits:

12:31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

13: 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails...

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 12:31; 13:1-8,13)

Love is the most important spiritual gift that we can demonstrate and develop.

But Christians are the ones who should have received the "love of the truth" (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11; Matthew 24:24).

Responses to the Sermon: Dreams, COGs, and One Man Rule

Received two unsolicited emails by CCOG members after they watched the recommended sermon for November 14, 2015 titled Dreams, COGs, and One Man Rule.

Here is the first with one name X'd out by me:

Dr. Thiel,

   Thank you for a needed sermon to inform those who have doubts about the use of dreams by God and to make it clear who God is using now to finish the final phase of His work. I know many are skeptical of one who claims they are the one God is using to lead His Work/Church. This is understandable since there are those who make such claims and are in it for themselves. Clearly you are doing what God has commissioned/called you to do. I can see no reason why you would dedicate so much time and energy in starting and leading the CCof G (what material benefit do you receive?). Materially you would be better off putting that time and energy into your business. However, the only wise option you really have is to allow God to use you as He wants since ones reward is in heaven. Therefore one should store up treasure in heaven.  I do not believe you sought/seek power and prestige as some do in other so called Church of God groups.

   I believe God has lead me to CCofG. He heard and answered my prayer. I finally became so disgusted with GCI and where it had lead God's people. I had so many issues with their doctrine, and tearing down of everything God built through HWA. But I did not know where to go. I believed God called and chose me and that His church would never die out. For many years I thought the mantel passed from HWA to Mr. Tkach senior, since Mr. HWA chose him as his successor, and then Joe Jr. Of course I was wrong. I looked to the example of unfaithful kings in Israel and Judah and waited for God to appoint a faithful leader. The example of David waiting for God to remove Saul was misunderstood by me.

   The last straw was a message DXX RXXXXX gave on church history about 4 years ago. He traced church history through the Catholic Church and he marginalized Mr. Armstrong's work. I finally woke up. I asked God to lead me where His most faithful leader and body of believers was.  In time and after much study of church history and those who were most faithful to the faith once delivered God lead me your website. He answered my prayer. Interestingly it was not until I had re-studied early church leaders such as Polycarp and Polycrates plus the Passover/Easter issue on other web sites, etc. that I discover Cogwriter by "accident".

  I recalled what HWA taught about church history and realized there still must be a Church of God group still faithful to biblical teachings and contending for the faith once delivered. But where and who?

  The main reason I never considered a break off group from WCG in the 1990's was because I first came in contact with Jerry Flurry's group. I reject his teaching on the man of sin and other doctrines and his leadership style. Also, when Global started and other break off groups there was such confusion and governance issue it seemed to me it was better to stay where I was in WCG. Of course being in Connecticut we were far from Pasadena and had little first hand information.

   However, I knew from scripture God did not want Christians to go it alone. He formed His church and it was ones duty to support His work as well as develop a personal  relationship with God. Many of my friends just left WCG or became members in churches of this world. Some stayed with WCG. But I believed God raised up HWA to start the 6th church era and to proclaim the second coming of Jesus Christ. Therefore, how could I just be content to go it alone, (outside of His Church)? Thankfully in time God answered my prayer and I believe has led me to CCofG.

  Hopefully others will wake up. Thank you for your faithful service.

This particular member graduated from Ambassador College in the late 1960s. It is good he found the sermon helpful.  As far as his observation that I was not seeking power and prestige, I would add that he has met with me and seen me both in the USA and Canada, and realizes that my profession, etc. could give me more of that. And yes, I would concur with his position that I would be better off financially (as well as the related stresses of 'the burden' associated with the work, cf. Malachi 1:1; Numbers 11:11) if I did not lead the CCOG, as I do not take a salary from the Continuing Church of God (CCOG). While the Bible says that ministers are entitled to be compensated per the Apostle Paul (1 Timothy 5:17-18), it also warns against worthless shepherds:

1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: "Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them." (Ezekiel 34:1-6)

While there is nothing wrong with wearing wool clothing, many in the ministry ended up with better clothes than perhaps they otherwise would have.  Often their focus has been wrong.

Why do I not take a salary?

Two basic reasons.

1) The work would be affected too much negatively--the Apostle Paul, himself, worked in his profession at times (Acts 18:3). We must feed the flock spiritually, and that does take funds to reach people. Costs are incurred for literature, the internet, video production, graphics, printing, postage, and travel--including sending Evangelist Evans Ochieng, myself, and/or others to differing locations to minister.

2) If I took a salary a lot more people would go hungry, especially in Africa (cf. Galatians 2:10). The salary amount that would be appropriate for me by historic Worldwide Church of God standards would dramatically reduce the amounts of support we could send to Africa. That being said, while I wish we had more money to send to Africa (and sometimes Asia), as we cannot satisfy all the hungry and other needs there, we are sending what we can. We try to feed the flock physically where we can (yet, even the Apostle Peter could not always give to the needy per Acts 3:6), and that takes funds.

This does not mean I would never consider taking a salary, but with the 'present distress' (cf. 1 Corinthians 7:26) I have chosen not to do it and God has blessed our business enough that our family has our needs, etc. met.

The second email was from a member who after seeing the Dreams, COGs, and One Man Rule sermon now wants to translate the CCOG sermons into the Spanish language.

The work (Matthew 24:14; 28:19-20; Galatians 2:10) is being done, and CCOG is a work that God has blessed with at least 3 dreams prior to its start and several since. But sadly, many do not believe that God will work using dreams in the 21st century, despite the reality that most once part of the old WCG supposedly believed that God did in the 20th century

God Uses Dreams: Can You Believe the Truth?

The Bible shows that God sometimes uses dreams. He has used it for leaders of His work throughout history.

In the second century, Polycarp of Smyrna had a dream/vision that is recorded in The Martyrdom of Polycarp. Regarding Polycarp, Herbert W. Armstrong noted:

Polycarp presided over the Church of God for half a century after John's death. Polycarp stood up boldly for the truth while many fell away ... (Armstrong HW. The Church They Couldn't Destroy. Good News, December 1981)

In the late 20th century, many fell away.

Most in the 21st century do not seem to accept that God still uses dreams/vision, even though most part of the old Radio Church of God and Worldwide Church of God accepted that in the 20th century.

The old Radio Church of God, which represented the beginning of the Philadelphia era of the Church of God, was preceded by a dream.

Can you accept the truth about dreams and the Continuing Church of God?

Notice something else from the late Herbert W. Armstrong:

PERSECUTORS HAVE CALLED me a “false prophet.” Now how would you KNOW whether the accusation IS true- or false?…

Actually, it probably is not very important to you to know whether my persecutors are right or wrong, when they call me dirty names, hurl epithets, resort to innuendo, impute sinister motives, strive to discredit, attempt character assassination. What is important to YOU is whether what you read in The PLAIN TRUTH really is the truth – whether what you hear over The WORLD TOMORROW broadcast is true- not whether I , as an individual, am true or false.

I think our readers know by now that we always say: ” DON’ T believe what we say because you believe in us.” We say ” Listen with open mind, without prejudice, then CHECK UP in your own Bible-prove whether it is true, and BELIEVE what you find proved!” I don’t seek to induce people to believe in ME- I seek to lead them to believe in JESUS CHRIST! (Armstrong HW. Personal from the Editor. Plain Truth, May 1966, pp. 2)

What we teach in the CCOG is true (though as imperfect human beings we sometimes mis-speak, make typos; we only know in part as did the Apostle Paul per 1 Corinthians 13:14). But we still stand for the truth and reaching the world with the witness of the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 24:14) and all things Jesus commanded (Matthew 28:19-20).

Chart of Some Confirmed CCOG-Related Dreams


Given to




K. Sani Mao

One dream was on the validity of the Sabbath, but the second showed what he later understood to be a ‘C’ meaning CCOG or COGwriter to align with.

Began following COGwriter, and later became part of the Continuing Church of God (CCOG) in November 2018.

c. December 2008



December 26, 2020

Bob Thiel

The dream showed evangelist Roderick Meredith, who had long called Bob Thiel a friend and who he was on regular speaking terms with, would stop speaking with him. He would drop down as Bob Thiel rose and their lines crossed–seemingly a mantle passing.

There was also another dream related to Isaiah 6:8 and apparently the passing of the mantle; the precise year unclear.

Because of airline connection issues, I was concerned whether or not I would be able to make the flight to Qatar.
In my dream, there were complications that made it look like I might not make the connecting flight. In the dream the complications were stressful, but without details. In the dream I prayed about this. I also prayed that if this trip and other trips I have made related to behind-the-scenes aspects of the final phase of the work was God’s will, that: 1) if there were stressful problems which looked like might cancel the trip 2) that I would make my connection to Qatar, and 3) that I would pass negative for the airport required COVID test.

Dr. Meredith stopped speaking with Bob Thiel  in the Spring of 2012. CCOG formed December 28, 2012. The mantle seemingly passed sometime between 2009-2011.
The passing of the mantle potentially related to Bob Thiel was specifically brought up by Gaylyn Bonjour in 2011 and 2012.

This began to fulfilled no later than December 28, 2012 with the official formation of the CCOG.

As it turned out, there were two different people with two different, yet seemingly very serious, health issues on that first flight, which delayed it. It looked like one or both of them (they were not related) may need to be taken off the flight or even treated on the ground as some came aboard the flight related to each of them. While their situations appeared treatable, I was concerned that this may cause me to miss the connection to Qatar, so I began to make contingency plans (as one flight I was on years ago was delayed over 10 hours because of a health-concern of one passenger). Yet, although my first plane left late, I was able to make the connection. My COVID test was also negative, so all three parts of the dream were confirmed.

December 8, 2012

Fesilafai Fiso Leaana

Approximately 10 people would separate from LCG, including Shirley Gestro and go to a group. A second part was related  to the Ark of the Covenant.

The fulfillment related to departure from LCG and 1o people going to CCOG occurred within several weeks of the dream and included Shirley Gestro (CCOG did not form until 3 weeks after the dream). The part related to the Ark of the Covenant was partially fulfilled during September 2013.

c. November 2013

Frederick Ochieng

God wanted Frederick’s father Evans to join with Bob Thiel to do the work that would grow.  Also, this work would have involvement from New Zealand.

The number of CCOG Africans went from a dozen to the almost three hundred (that had been with Evans) in 2014, to over 4,000 by 2019. Also, Frederick said he was unaware that CCOG had any New Zealand component before having that dream and New Zealand has played important roles (editing, literature and article promotion, online radio, etc.) in supporting CCOG.

c. November 2013

May 13, 2022

Evans Ochieng

He saw a small white handkerchief. It was very white and in in it was written Continuing church of God. While looking it, it enlarged till become bigger.
He saw a similar white handkerchief expanding again, but pointing to him baptizing many in Malawi (and possibly Mozambique). He also heard a voice, “The voice stated that Dr Bob is a beloved man.”

The CCOG became the fastest growing COG in the 21st century since that dream.

Evans Ochieng went to Malawi on May 27, 2022 to try to lay more of the foundation for more baptisms there and in Mozambique. He took the “beloved man” comment as supernatural confirmation that Bob Thiel and the CCOG has God’s blessing.

c. March 1, 2014

Senhor Pires

Bob Thiel would be speaking to a large group that would all be black, with him the only white person.

Fulfilled March 17, 2014 when Bob Thiel spoke before church leaders and members in Nairobi, Kenya, he was the only white person.

c. January 2017

Nimrod Ondigo

Bob Thiel would anoint him with oil.

Fulfilled on February 9, 2017. Nimrod did not have any reason to know that he would be ordained by Bob Thiel as a deacon as Bob Thiel did not do any ordinations in his previous trips to Africa. Also Bob Thiel did not learn of his dream until about two weeks after the ordination.

January 2019

Premkumar Ninthoujam

Aleksandar Veljic would get to Manipur, despite visa and travel issues that looked to prevent him, plus Sani Mao would be anointed with oil.

Aleksandar Veljic arrived in Manipur on January 10, 2019 and ended up anointing Sani Mao as a deacon on January 12, 2019 as Bob Thiel had tentatively authorized (but had not let Sani Mao or anyone in India know).

Mid-Late 2020

Beverley Bivens

Alexsandar Veljic would no longer be in the CCOG and would ignore those in the CCOG when he would visit the USA.

Alexsandar Veljic left the CCOG on February 24, 2023. He never visited the USA when he was part of the CCOG. He arrived in the USA from Serbia in January 2024 and ignored the CCOG. He was stricken with two strokes after coming to the USA and died March 20, 2024.

The above list has dreams that were given to different ones of different ages in Africa, Asia, Europe, North America, and the South Pacific.

Of course, many will discount dreams, their confirmation, and true teachings as proper proof of anything they do not wish to believe. Many want more dramatic signs (Matthew 12:38; 1 Kings 19:11-12), but God does not always do it that way (Matthew 12:39-42; 1 Kings 19:12-14).

The word of God clearly states:

3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? (Hebrews 2:3-4)

Will you accept the signs and wonders God's word says He uses to confirm who is working according to His will?

The truth of what we in CCOG teach should overcome genuine objections of any truly interested in loving the truth over false and improper traditions and beliefs. Jesus warned that Laodicean Christians felt that they had need of nothing (Revelation 3:14-22) and that Sardisian Christians were losing much of the truth that they had (Revelation 3:1-6).

The Continuing Church of God is the only COG organization with so many of the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18 (see also Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?).

Can you believe?

If so, are you taking the steps to support the work confirmed by dreams that came to pass?

A related sermon is also available: Dreams, COGs, and One Man Rule.

Here are links and information related to three free online booklets:

Faith for Those God has Called and Chosen What is faith? Can faith be increased? Are you saved by faith? What about works? Do Christians need to keep the Ten Commandments? What is the 'faith chapter'? How do the just live by faith? Is faith one of the weightier matters of the law? How does faith come? Here is a link to a pdf. booklet titled . Marque aquí para ver el pdf folleto: Fe para aquellos que Dios ha llamado y escogido. Here is a link to a related sermon titled: Faith for the Called and Chosen. Here is a link to shorter version of the written article in Mandarin Chinese 一篇关于信仰的小文章.

Where is the True Christian Church Today? This free online pdf booklet answers that question and includes 18 proofs, clues, and signs to identify the true vs. false Christian church. Plus 7 proofs, clues, and signs to help identify Laodicean churches. A related sermon is also available: Where is the True Christian Church? Here is a link to the booklet in the Spanish language: ¿Dónde está la verdadera Iglesia cristiana de hoy? Here is a link in the German language: WO IST DIE WAHRE CHRISTLICHE KIRCHE HEUTE? Here is a link in the French language: Où est la vraie Église Chrétienne aujourd’hui?

Continuing History of the Church of God This pdf booklet is a historical overview of the true Church of God and some of its main opponents from Acts 2 to the 21st century. Related sermon links include Continuing History of the Church of God: c. 31 to c. 300 A.D. and Continuing History of the Church of God: 4th-16th Centuries and Continuing History of the Church of God: 17th-20th Centuries. The booklet is available in Spanish: Continuación de la Historia de la Iglesia de Dios, German: Kontinuierliche Geschichte der Kirche Gottes, French: L Histoire Continue de l Église de Dieu and Ekegusii Omogano Bw’ekanisa Ya Nyasae Egendererete.

Thiel B. Dreams, the Bible, and the Continuing Church of God http://www.cogwriter.com/dreams.htm COGwriter (c) 2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019/2020/ 2021 /2022 /2023 /2024 0620

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