Why Cover Karl zu Guttenberg?

Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, 08/23/2010, age 38 (Flickr, Wikipedia)


As regular readers of this page are aware, I have been covering former German Defense Minister Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg since 2009.  Back then, I noticed that a writer out of Canada speculated that Europe might need a leader like Baron Guttenberg to lead it (see America to be Replaced By China or Europe?)–since the Bible tells of an end time leader to rise up and dominate Europe, I ended up do more prophetic research on the subject of the Baron’s possible role.

Yet, certain anti-Church of God critics seem to be besides themselves in their often inane criticism of my coverage of his possible end time role.  There were a few comments from critics that I ran across yesterday, and instead of dealing with much of the nonsense, I thought that perhaps I would quote most of one of the comments that was posted about me in response to an article someone posted partially titled The Prophet Thiel and Beast Guttenberg… at the “Banned by HWA” site:

I guess Bob just didn’t notice that Herr Guttenberg plagiarized…his doctoral thesis, it was an enormous scandal, his degree was revoked, and he resigned from the government in shame and fled the country?

Why wouldn’t one think that his political career is over?

Since my critics can type, I will presume that they also can read.  But they must miss a lot of what I read to post something like that.

Let me make a couple of points.

  1. Not only do I know that Karl Guttenberg resigned because of his plagiarism scandal, in June 2010 (about eight months before the plagiarism scandal became public), I posted:  “the Baron is not always popular, and he may become unpopular for a time.”  So, the scandal was not unexpected and consistent with what I thought would happen with the Baron.
  2. The Baron received an appointment in the European Union in December 12, 2011, which indicates that his political career is not over.  Furthermore, on March 4, 2011, I posted, “If Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg eventually establishes a new religious order within Catholicism (cf. Daniel 11:38), promotes European unity, promotes ecumenism, promotes peace in the Middle East, and/or otherwise rises up in European politics, he could be very interesting to watch. He now may have the time to do some of these things…”  And he is starting to rise up in European politics.

In addition to getting the position in the EU, the CSU party in Germany even asked him to run for political office in 2013 (see Karl Guttenberg Says No to 2013).  Thus, the idea that the Baron should not be covered because he has been so disgraced that his political career supposedly is over does not square with the facts.

Part of the problem with many of my scoffing critics is that they either do not know certain scripture or do not accept the writings of the Bible as inspired.  Since I do accept scripture, this might be a good time to quote a scripture (with three different translations) that some of my critics seem to have overlooked related to the final King of the North:

21 His place will be taken by a reject, a man spurned and passed over for advancement. He’ll surprise everyone, seemingly coming out of nowhere, and will seize the kingdom. (Daniel 11:21, THE MESSAGE)

21 And in his place shall arise a vile person, to whom they will not give the honor of royalty; but he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue. (Daniel 11:21, New King James Version)

21 ‘In his place will rise a wretch: royal honours will not be given to him, but rather he will insinuate himself into them at his pleasure and will gain possession of the kingdom by intrigue. (Daniel 11:21, New Jerusalem Bible)

So, being considered a reject and being subject to ridicule seems to fulfill prophecy, and not eliminate the Baron from consideration.  Interestingly, it should be noted the Baron was considered to have had a major chance to become Chancellor of Germany before the plagiarism scandal. In a sense, he was “a man spurned and passed over for advancement” as THE MESSAGE version of Daniel 11:21 indicates.  (Those with a former WCG background may wish to realize that the late Herbert W. Armstrong taught that Daniel 11:21 was referring to the final King of the North; for details see the article Who is the King of the North?)

Since his resignation in early 2011, former German Defense Minister Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg keeps making political and military contacts in the USA and elsewhere that he may be able to use later.  His plan appearance later this week in Georgia (see Karl Guttenberg to Speak in Georgia) is further proof of that.

Thus far, several of my speculative predictions about Baron Guttenberg have come to pass (details of several of them are in the article COGwriter Speculations on Karl zu Guttenberg Shown Correct).  Interestingly, the anti-COGwriter critics and scoffers pretty much overlook the accuracy of my speculations (although some do sarcastically refer to me as “Prophet Thiel”).

Now, what are the real reasons to continue to cover the Baron?

Well, we are getting close to the time when the final King of the North will rise up.  Also, Roman and Eastern Orthodox Catholics are looking for a time when the “Great Monarch” will rise up.  As it turns out, Baron Karl-Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg seems to fit many biblical and non-biblical prophecies for this leader.

Here are summaries of 21 attributes of Catholic private prophecies concerning the “Great Monarch” that seem to fit Baron Guttenberg:

  1. The Great Monarch will be a descendant of Charlemagne (the Baron’s mother is a Habsburg and the Habsburg line descends from Charlemagne).
  2. His name will begin with the letter K (Karl does).
  3. His name will be Charles (Charles is the French and English version of the name Karl).
  4. One of his names will be Joseph (this is one of his many names).
  5. The Great Philip will lead an army of 18 languages (he was once defense minister, one of his names is Philipp, he has advocated for a multi-national/multi-lingual European army, and perhaps he will lead an army again).
  6. The Great King’s name will be like the Sabbath (this does not seem to apply to the Baron, however, since Israel is associated with the Sabbath, some may interpret that the name Jakob fulfills this–Israel is the name that God renamed Jacob in Genesis 32:28).
  7. His name will be 80 characters in length. If this means exactly 80 characters and includes all his names then he exceeds this (as there are 88 characters as I have seen them). However, if the prophecy means at least 80 character or if his eight-character title (Freiherr, which means Baron in English) is not counted, it may be he could possibly be considered a fulfillment of this prediction.
  8. He will be educated since birth (he was).
  9. He will speak English to those in his empire (he is fluent in English, but has no empire yet).
  10. He will have dark hair (he does).
  11. He will be balding in the front (he is).
  12. He will have an eagle/aquiline nose (he seems to).
  13. He will be handsome (it has been suggested that he is).
  14. He will be a knight/duke, for “a valiant duke will arise from the ancient German house” (a German Baron who is a military leader seems to fit this).
  15. He will be ecumenically-oriented (the Baron married a Lutheran).
  16. He is supposed to rise up when the Catholic Church has been humiliated (he has been rising up and the Catholic Church is still being humiliated by sex scandals).
  17. He is supposed to be involved in war before he is 40 (the Baron was Defence Minister and in Afghanistan in military fatigues while in his late 30s–see the photo at the beginning of today’s post).
  18. He will be disgraced (he has been by his plagiarism scandal).
  19. He will be exiled (he exiled himself in mid-2011).
  20. He will be exiled in a humid, but not too hot, climate (his relocation to Connecticut in 2011 seems to meet that description).
  21. He will rise up after being exiled (he seems to now be starting to do so, though he may slip again).

Now it should be noted that although many Roman and Eastern Orthodox Catholics seem to be looking forward to the “Great Monarch” rising up, some Catholics have expressed concern about this.  Notice:

Catholic writer Paul Thigpen warns, “Looking for the Great Monarch, then, who does not appear in Scripture, might lead to overlooking the Antichrist who does. It might even lead to–a more disturbing thought–to mistaking the Antichrist for the Great Monarch. After all, lesser antichrists of the past such as Hitler and Stalin have seduced followers with visions of grand and glorious earthly kingdoms. Surely Antichrist of the last days will do the same.” (Penn L. False dawn: the United Religions Initiative, globalism, and the quest for a one-world religion. Sophia Perennis, 2005, p. 420).

I agree with Paul Thigpen that the “Great Monarch” concept is biblically-dangerous and some may then overlook the end time European leaders that the Bible warns of: the Beast/King of the North and the Antichrist.  For a a summation of certain private Catholic prophecies and some related scriptural references that show that many private prophecies for the Great Monarch are consistent with the warnings in the Bible against the Beast/King of the North, please see the article Who is the King of the North?

Now, it is true that Karl Guttenberg does not fit all Catholic and Byzantine prophecies that exist concerning the Great Monarch.  Yet, since in my view, some of them are contradictory, no one individual possibly could (nor will all “private prophecies” be fulfilled, especially the way that many seem to understand them). Thus far, Karl Guttenberg seems to fulfill the Catholic and Byzantine prophecies regarding the “Great Monarch” better than anyone I have seen.

And there are also biblical reasons to consider Karl Guttenberg.

Here are 23 biblically-related items to consider:

  1. Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg is a leader from middle Europe.  His blood line crosses into various countries in Europe (at least Germany, France, Austria, Liechtenstein, and Croatia). So did the Roman empire. (cf. Daniel 7:24; 9:26-27; Isaiah 10:5-11).
  2. He has a military background as he was “Minister of Defence” for Germany..  The Beast of Revelation 13:1-4 is shown to be a military political leader.
  3. He is considered to have some economic expertise. (cf. Daniel 8:25; 11:24; Revelation 13:16-17; 18:3)
  4. He is an extremely popular politician (he was the most popular in Germany in early and late 2010). (Revelation 13:4,8)
  5. He is considered an expert on foreign policy. (cf. Daniel 11:27)
  6. He is some type of Catholic. (cf. Revelation 17:7-11)
  7. Because he is married to a Lutheran (and she apparently did not convert prior to marriage), he apparently is not super strict about being Catholic (some other news reports I have seen also seem to confirm this in other ways as well). (cf. Revelation 13:4,8; Daniel 11:36-38)
  8. His wife also has political connections, and both of them have made various public  “morality statements.”  Hence suggesting that the Guttenbergs represent the moral high ground in Germany. (cf. Revelation 13:4,8)
  9. He seems to have ecumenical tendencies, and that is what the “Great Monarch” of Catholic prophecies and the final Beast of Revelation would likely have. (cf. Revelation 13:4,8; Daniel 11:36-38)
  10. He may be considered to be entitled to use the “King of Jerusalem” title that Otto von Habsburg held. (cf. Daniel 11:31)
  11. Charlemagne was a Frank-German leader and “Holy Roman Emperor.”  The Baron is a descendant of the Habsburg line of rulers (the Emperors of the Holy Roman Empire were from the Habsburg line; cf. Revelation 17:9-11). Certain Catholic prophecies indicate that the “Great Monarch” will be a descendant of Charlemagne. Bible prophecies seem to point to the resurrection of an empire that has revived in the past (Revelation 13:1-3; 17:9-11)
  12. He has the right to select the priest for his parish.  Hence, the idea that political leaders should be involved with religion is something he was raised up believing. A leader combining church and state is prophesied in Daniel 11:37-38 and Revelation 13.
  13. The understanding that his title means “Baron of the Holy Roman Empire” is interesting as the Book of Revelation describes a power that would resemble a re-emergence of “the Holy Roman Empire” and Catholic prophecy specifically tells of a time when “The Great King will be crowned Holy Roman Emperor by the reigning Pope” (Birch DA. Trial, Tribulation & Triumph: Before During and After Antichrist. Queenship Publishing Company, Goleta (CA), 1996,, p. 555). Baron is a title of nobility, but not one of royalty. (Daniel 11:21)
  14. The fact that he has been the most popular political leader in Germany suggests that he has a certain charisma that would be consistent with that which is expected for the final Beast leader (cf. Daniel 7:20,11:21-24,31; Revelation 13:3-5).
  15. He is believed to carefully cultivate his public image, which seems consistent with the cunning (Daniel 8:25) and other practices of the final Beast leader (Daniel 11:36-38).
  16. Because a Catholic monarchist relative (Karl Ludwig Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg) of his was involved in a plot against Hitler in 1944 (and killed for it in April 1945), he may be perceived as less of a threat than others with a German background. (cf. Daniel 8:23-25; 11:24)
  17. He is considered to be a smooth talking attractive leader. (cf. Daniel 8:25; 11:21)
  18. Some of his entertainment actions suggest that beneath his exterior he may have certain “vile” tendencies (cf. Daniel 11:21). His plagiarism scandal seems consistent with this as well.
  19. He has a problem with arrogance and vanity (Daniel 11:36-37).
  20. He is in a type of self-imposed exile and it is possible that the King of the North is supposed to have a period of exile. (cf. Daniel 8:23-25; 11:21-23)
  21. He has risen to powerful positions quite quickly.  And may do that again. (Daniel 8:23-24)
  22. He has been ridiculed and rejected by many. (Daniel 11:21)
  23. He has a certain expertise when it comes to computers and surveillance. (cf. Revelation 13:15-18).

If Karl zu Guttenberg is the one who will become the final King of the North of Bible prophecy, then he will emerge further in European politics, even though it would seem he could be expected to have one or more set-backs.  Of course, Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg could simply be a somewhat politician with many ups and downs.  And all his intentions could be fine.  But Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg does seem, to me at least, to be taking the types of steps that one who could possibly be the final King of the North would actually take.  We will see.

Of course, Europe itself is having problems, but the Bible prophesied that it would (Daniel 2:41-43) and would have to reorganize (Revelation 17:12-13).

As far as my speculating that the Baron might be the first Beast of Revelation 13, there are two points that I would like to make:

  1. Despite false assertions from some of my critics, I have never insisted that Baron Guttenberg is or must be the Beast.  I have mainly compiled scriptures and various facts about him that seem supportive of that position (as well as some that do not, see Might German Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg become the King of the North?), while also acknowledging that thus far, these are not proof that he must be the Beast–only that there are enough facts that warrant considering him.
  2. The Baron himself has called himself a “zoon politicon,” which means he calls himself a political beast or political animal (see Guttenberg Refers to Himself as a Type of Political Beast).  We will see how far-reaching and how accurate his own assessment of his ambitions is.

A leader known as the final King of the North and Beast in Bible prophecy will ultimately become the leader of Europe.  According to the Bible, he will have military abilities (Revelation 13:1-4), will approve economic controls (Revelation 13:15-17), will have had problems (Daniel 11;21), will be arrogant (Daniel 11:36-37), and apparently be popular and charismatic (cf. Daniel 7:20,11:21-24,31; Revelation 13:3-5).  The Baron’s background and actions are consistent with the possibility of being such a leader.

For one last reason to cover the Baron, remember that Jesus told His followers that we all should watch end time events (cf. Mark 13:37; Luke 12:37).  Former German Economics Minister and Defense Minister Karl zu Guttenberg is a person of interest as he seems to want an end time role and likely will have one, even if he is not the one who will be the Beast of Revelation.

Some articles of possibly related interest may include:

Europa, the Beast, and Revelation Where did Europe get its name? What might Europe have to do with the Book of Revelation? What about “the Beast”?
Who is the King of the North? Is there one? Do biblical and Roman Catholic prophecies point to the same leader? Should he be followed? Who will be the King of the North discussed in Daniel 11? Is a nuclear attack prophesied to happen to the English-speaking peoples of the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand? When do the 1335 days, 1290 days, and 1260 days (the time, times, and half a time) of Daniel 12 begin? What MUST happen BEFORE the Great Tribulation?
Might German Baron Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg become the King of the North? Is the German Defense Minister one to watch? What do Catholic, Byzantine, and biblical prophecies suggest?
Anglo – America in Prophecy & the Lost Tribes of Israel Are the Americans, Canadians, British, Scottish, Welsh, Australians, Anglo (non-Dutch) Southern Africans, and New Zealanders descendants of Joseph? Where are the lost ten-tribes of Israel? Who are the lost tribes of Israel? What will happen to Jerusalem and the Jews in Israel? Will God punish the U.S.A., Canada, United Kingdom, and other Anglo nations? Why might God allow them to be punished first? How will Europeans be involved in this?

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