Eastern Ukrainians want vote to be ‘Little Russia’

Donetsk & Luhansk (Olegzima)

The situation in eastern Ukraine remains difficult. Some in Donetsk want a vote to become “Little Russia”:

18 July 2017

Rebel forces in eastern Ukraine on Tuesday announced that they plan to hold a referendum calling for the creation of a new state known as Malorossiya, which translates as “Little Russia.”

In a statement published on the rebel-aligned Donetsk News Agency, rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko said that the new state would aspire to include not only the areas under insurgent control, but also the rest of Ukraine.

Representatives from the self-declared “People’s Republics” of Donetsk and Luhansk in east Ukraine had agreed to “declare the establishment of a new state, which is the successor of Ukraine,” said Zakharchenko.

The declaration went on to say that they “the government of Ukraine has proven itself to be a failed state” and that Ukraine has “demonstrated its current and future incapability of providing peace and prosperity to its residents.”

Under the proposal, Malorossiya would cover the entire area of Ukraine, while the capital would be moved from Kiev to the insurgent bastion of Donetsk. Kiev would be reduced to a “historical and cultural center.”

The self-proclaimed authorities in Donetsk have repeatedly expressed their intentions to join Russia. The Kremlin, however, has stopped short of annexing the area and denies to have propped up rebel groups with military support, despite overwhelming evidence suggesting otherwise.

Germany condemns ‘Little Russia’ announcement

The German government decried the proposal for a new state as “completely unacceptable.” http://www.dw.com/en/little-russia-ukraine-separatists-proclaim-new-state/a-39732807

July 18, 2017

MOSCOW/KIEV (Reuters) – The pro-Russian rebel leader of a breakaway region in eastern Ukraine announced proposals to abolish Ukraine and create a new state in its place on Tuesday, comments that could further undermine a 2015 peace deal that is already faltering.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko dismissed the idea, describing Alexander Zakharchenko, leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR), as part of “a puppet show”, with Russia pulling his strings in order to relay a message.

Ukrainian officials said Russia wanted to show the world, and the United States especially, it could keep the crisis in a suspended state and deepen it if need be. A new U.S. envoy for the Ukraine crisis was appointed this month and Moscow and Washington are likely to start regularly engaging on the issue.

Zakharchenko, who scarcely would have expected anything other than outright rejection from Kiev, said in a declaration that he and his allies were proposing a new state called Malorossiya (Little Russia) be set up with its capital in rebel-held Donetsk.

Malorossiya was the term used to describe swaths of modern-day Ukraine when they were part of the Russian Empire and is one which many Ukrainians today regard as offensive.

“We are proposing to residents of Ukraine a peaceful way out of a difficult situation without war. It’s our last proposal,” Zakharchenko said in a statement. The new state would be federal, with regions enjoying a large degree of autonomy.

He said the move was backed by delegates from different Ukrainian regions, though a statement from the neighboring rebel territory of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic said it had been unaware of the initiative. https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-07-18/pro-russian-rebel-leader-in-e-ukraine-unveils-plan-for-new-state

Some in Donetsk and Luhansk have declared their independence from the government in Kiev before, and even held referendums (e.g. see West condemns Donetsk and Luhansk elections; USA holds its own election that some wonder where it will lead to), but the West has not recognized them. Russia has remained a bit aloof as it realizes that the West, still upset about Crimea becoming part of Russia, put in place various sanctions which still exist.

As far as the term “Little Russia” goes, this is a historical term.  The term Little Russia (that traces its origin to no later than 1335) used to be widely used as the name for the geographic territory now commonly called Ukraine. In the seventeenth century the term Malorossiya was introduced into Russian. In English the term is often translated Little Russia or Little Rus’, depending on the context. Since the middle of the seventeenth century the modern name “Ukraine” (Ukrayina) (first found in the twelfth century chronicles) was used sporadically, until it was reintroduced in the nineteenth century by a conscious effort of several writers concerned with the awakening of the Ukrainian national awareness. It was not until the twentieth century when the modern term “Ukraine” started to prevail while Little Russia gradually fell out of use (Wikipedia, accessed 07/18/17).

There has been a lot of violence in eastern Ukraine and we continue to see moves by some there towards Russia.

Why could this be of possible prophetic interest?

Some believe that the Ukranians are mainly or partially ‘Medes,’ and there are end time prophecies involving the Medes.

The Medes and the Russians seem to have shared some history. But this is not clear to many. Notice the following:

The history of the Medes is dark and unknown. — Dmitri Ivanovich Ilovaisky …

In linguistic terms, the Russians are identified as East Slavs, that is, speakers of East Slavic, which eventually evolved into three distinct languages: Greater Russian, often simply called Russian; Ukrainian; and White Russian, or Belorussian (Belarus).

(Riasanovsky NV. Russian Identities : A Historical Survey: A Historical Survey. Oxford University Press, 2005, p.7)

The above is at the beginning of the first chapter in the book cited on the origins of the Russians and Ukrainians. The author is a professor of history emeritus from UC Berkeley.

It should be noted that part of the reason that many are unclear about the connection is because of multiple migrations or peoples with differing names showing in the historical record.

As far as names go, the historian Herodotus claimed that there were six different tribes/families of Medes. Herodotus identified the tribes of the Medes as Busae, Parataceni/Paratakeni, Struchates/Strukhates, Arizanti, Budii, and the Magi (Herodotus: A New and Literal Version with a Geographical and General Index by Henry Cary. Histories, book 1, chapter 101. Translated by Henry Cary. Harper, 1896. Original from the University of Virginia, Digitized Jan 23, 2009, p. 46).

Here is one report about the six tribes:

  • The Busae group is thought to derive from the Persian term buza meaning indigenous (i.e. not Iranian). Whether this was based on an originally Iranian term, or their own name, is unknown.
  • The second group is called the Paraetaceni, or Parae-tak-(eni) in Persian, and denotes nomadic inhabitants of the mountains of Paraetacene. This name recalls the Scythian Para-la-ti, the people of Kolaxis, believed to represent the common people in general, but whom Herodotus calls the “Royal Scythians”.
  • The third group is called Stru­khat.
  • The fourth group is the Arizanti, whose name is derived from the words Arya (noble), and Zantu (tribe, clan).
  • The fifth group were the Budii, found also among the Black Sea Scythians as Budi-ni. Buddha was of the tribe Budha, the Saka (eastern Scythian) form of the name.
  • The sixth tribe were the Magi…They were a hereditary caste of priests of the Zurvanism religion that evolved out of Zoroastrianism. The name Magi implies a link with the Sumerians, who called their language Emegir, over time becoming simplified to Magi. Hungarian tradition also traces pre-European Magyar (Hungarian) ancestry back to the Magi. In time, the Sumerian-influenced religion of the Magi was suppressed in favour of a more purely Iranian form of Zoroastrianism, itself evolved from its somewhat dualist beginnings into the monotheistic faith that it is today (also known as Parsi-ism). (History of the Medes. http://www.taroscopes.com/miscellanous-pages/medes.html viewed 08/31/14)

As far as the Russians and Ukrainians go, the late evangelists John Ogwyn and Dr. Herman Hoeh wrote:

The Origins of the Russian People

We need to understand who the Russian people are and where they came from. In order to recognize Biblical prophecies about them, it is necessary to know their origin. Actually, several related tribes anciently migrated into European Russia and became the ancestors of the three branches of the Russian peoples: the Great Russians, the Little Russians and the White Russians. History, culture and language unite these people, though they initially sprang from different ancestors.
In earliest times we find two nations, identified in the Bible as Meshech and Tubal, dwelling in the easternmost part of Asia Minor along the southeastern shore of the Black Sea. These closely related nations were called Mushki by the Assyrians and Moschi by the Greeks. To their east were a related people, the ancient Medes, who dwelt between the Black and Caspian Seas. These peoples, under the leadership of the Medes, played a prominent role in the destruction of the Assyrian capital, Ninevah, in 612BC.
The fifth and fourth centuries BC saw increasing conflict between the Persian and Greek realms, with peoples such as Meshech, Tubal, Lud (Lydia), Medes and Elamites being drawn into the fighting. By the close of the fourth century BC the Greeks, under Alexander the Great, had triumphed over Persia. It was the subsequent Greek invasion of eastern lands that resulted in pressure on people living between the Black and Caspian Sea to migrate north into the Scythian plains. Many different peoples, including remnants of the exiled northern ten tribes of Israel, inhabited the vast plains of Scythia during the coming centuries.
According to the Cultural Atlas of Russia and the Soviet Union, by the second century BC an “…Iranian nomadic people…[whose] federation of tribes eventually seems to have included a strong Slavonic element…” (p. 34) were settled north of the Black Sea. This confederation of peoples was drawn from Elamites and Medes, together with Meshech and Tubal. By this time they must have been speaking a common language, proto-Slavic, akin to Old Persian. The name the Slavs call themselves comes from slovo, which means “word,” and stresses the sense of a linguistic community that is distinct from “non-understanders,” the meaning of nemets, the general Slav designation for Germans.
From north of the Black Sea the Elamites gradually spread west and south, giving rise to the Slavic population in central and southern Europe. The tribes who traced their descent from the ancient Medes moved a little north and west to lay claim to the rich farmland of Little Russia, the Ukraine. From Meshech and Tubal came the Great Russians, who spread north and east, eventually establishing Moscow and the principality of Muscovy. The River Moskva, named for the people of Meshech (called Mushki or Moschi anciently), gave its name to the city and principality (Ogwyn J. What’s Ahead for Russia? TW Magazine, May-June 2000).

Origin of Word “Russia”

What is the origin of the word “Russian” — the “Rosh” of Ezekiel 38:2 (when properly translated)?
The INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BIBLE ENCYCLOPAEDIA gives the answer. Here, under the article “Rosh”, we find that a vast area of the Mesopotamian Valley was called “the land of Rashu!” The word “Russ” or “Rosh” means blonde. And in ancient Mesopotamia lived the blonde children of Keturah and Abraham mentioned in Genesis 25:1-6. They founded the Kingdom of Mitanni, named after Midian and Medan.
In modern times the name “Russ” was first applied to Russia because of the blond people of White Russia who live next to the people of Meshech and Tubal. (See ENCY. BRIT., art. “Russia”.) These blonds are quite different from the Great Russians. The White Russians are related to the Asshurim of North Germany and to the Letushim and other Abrahamic tribes along the Baltic. They are the main body of the people of Medan and Midian who proceeded north into Russia centuries ago! Herodotus mentions that the “Matienians” from the land of Rosh were associated with the people of Meshech and Tubal! (Thalia, 94.) And Pliny the Roman natural historian speaks of the “Matiani” as moving into Russia through the Caucasus (BK. VI, sec. xviii of NATURAL HISTORY). That is the true origin of the word “Russian”.And Little Russians, too!

Not all Russians are Great Russians and White Russians. Some are called “Little Russians”. They live — in the Ukraine and the eastern parts of Romania and Poland. They are often called Ukrainians or Ruthenians. There are about 50 million of them! Who are these people?
The MEDES! The sons of Madai! Here is the proof!
In Genesis 10:2 we have Madai, the son of Japheth listed. Now check in an exhaustive concordance. You will find the original Hebrew word translated into English as “Mede” or “Median” is always Madai. Madai is the father of the Medes. The Medes used to be associated with the Persians. You will read about them especially in the book of Daniel. But by the time of Nehemiah the Persians were much more prominent. Today there are no Medes left in Persia. The Medes are gone. Certainly a great branch of the human family could not suddenly vanish from the earth!
Indeed they did not. Throughout South Russia — in the Ukraine — four centuries before Christ the Medes were beginning to settle. Here is what the historian Herodotus wrote of these people: “They say that they are a colony of the Medes. How they can have been a colony of the Medes I cannot compehend; but anything may happen in course of time” (Terpsichore, 9).
Herodotus, like many moderns, was prone to believe that the people who inhabited Mesopotamia and the “Bible lands” must be living there today. But they are not. The Arabs have taken their place!
The fact that the Medes are the Little Russians today is further amplified by Pliny in his NATURAL HISTORY, bk. VI, sec. xi. He mentions “the river Don, where the inhabitants are… said to be descended from the Medes”!
Media is pictured along with Elam in Eastern Europe as attacking Western Europe in World War III (Isaiah 21:2). (Hoeh H. The TRUTH about the Race Question! Plain Truth, July 1957)

It should also be noted that some others do not believe that Russia or Moscow are close enough to the words in the Bible that some believe they came from. But, the Russian people did descend from one of the sons of Noah and the lands that they possess are mentioned in certain scriptures.

Some of the Russians themselves appear to have been from the Medes. Notice the following account:

But how are we to explain the name Russia? The old-fashioned view was to derive the word from the Rhoxolani. This, however, has long been abandoned. One thing is certain, namely, that these Rhoxolani were of Oriental descent, a Medic or Iranic tribe. They disappear from history, having, like so many other tribes — as, for instance, the Pechenegs and the Khozars—been swallowed up by the huge waves of immigration which overflowed the country (Morfill WR. Russia. Published 1890 by T.F. Unwin, London).

There are many disputes among academics as to who derived from whom, thus it is not completely clear, for example, that the Rhoxolani were Medes who went to Russia. The Bible has several end time prophecies concerning the Medes (Isaiah 13:17-19) and the kings of the Medes (Jeremiah 51:11, 28-29) that involve military action. Various ones in Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Russia, and elsewhere are part of the descendants of the Medes, as likely are some in Moldova.

However, if the Rhoxolani were Medes, then it would seem to be consistent with certain biblical prophecies.

Notice also the following:

Today the people who constituted the empire of the Medes may be found in western Russia, specifically the Ukraine and Volhynia. (White C. The Great German Nation: Origins and Destiny. AuthorHouse, 2007, p. 285)

While some/many in Ukraine descended from the Medes, so have some/many in Russia. It may be of interest to note that the Ukrainian capital of Kiev was once the capital for all of Russia.

Biblically, because of prophecies involving the Medes (Jeremiah 51:11-32), some of which are in Ukraine, and those in the “north and east” in Daniel 11:44, it would seem that Russia would be closer to at least parts of Ukraine (like some of the eastern portions of it) in the end than many realize (there is also a YouTube video available related to this titled Ukraine in Prophecy?)

The situation in the eastern portion of Ukraine remains volatile. Kiev does not like what is happening in the east and many in the east continue to wish to be distant from Kiev.

Russia wants Ukraine and would prefer that all of it become part of its Eurasian Union. Short of that, it would seem that Russia would at least be interested in eastern regions, like Donetsk and Luhansk, to become part of the Eurasian Union.

The West, however, is not pleased and is trying to figure out what to do about that as well as sanctions.

The current negotiations are related to that.

Years ago, and before Russia annexed Crimea, I wrote that we could see a split in Ukraine. I also wrote that we may see another split in Ukraine in the future. Currently, various ones in Donetsk and Luhansk are pushing for either more of a split or more ties to Russia.

Ukraine has had economic and other problems for years. Those in western Ukraine seem to hope that the European Union will be the answer, whereas as those in the eastern portion believe that they have been so marginalized, etc. that Russia is the answer.

Of course, neither Russia nor the European Union are the answer for what ails Ukraine. Those there need repentance and the Kingdom of God. But that is not the direction that most will choose in this age.

Some items of possibly related interest may include:

Russia and Ukraine: Origins and Prophesied Future Where do the Russians come from? What about those in the Ukraine? What is prophesied for Russia and its allies? What will they do to the Europeans that supported the Beast in the end? You can also watch the short video Ukraine in Prophecy?
Russia in the Bible and in Prophecy Is Russia mentioned in the Bible? It it is where is it? Is there any evidence of a people moving to the land that the Russians now occupy? What do Catholic and other prophecies say about Russia? What does the Bible teach? How are Protestants often in error on this? Is there more in biblical prophecy for Russia than war? Does God have a plan to save Russia and her allies? Does Russia have a history involving Sabbath keepers? Does scripture tie Russia in with Armageddon? Will Russia help defeat the end time Babylonian power? This is a video.
Christian Repentance Do you know what repentance is? Is it really necessary for salvation? A related sermon is also available titled: Real Christian Repentance.
The Gospel of the Kingdom of God was the Emphasis of Jesus and the Early Church Did you know that? Do you even know what the gospel of the kingdom is all about? You can also see a YouTube video sermons Why Teach the Kingdom of God, The Gospel of the Kingdom, and The Kingdom of God is the Solution.
Europa, the Beast, and Revelation Where did Europe get its name? What might Europe have to do with the Book of Revelation? What about “the Beast”? Is an emerging European power “the daughter of Babylon”? What is ahead for Europe? Here is a link to a video titled: Can You Prove that the Beast to Come is European?
European Technology and the Beast of Revelation Will the coming European Beast power would use and develop technology that will result in the taking over of the USA and its Anglo-Saxon allies? Is this possible? What does the Bible teach? Here is a related YouTube video: Military Technology and the Beast of Revelation.
Must the Ten Kings of Revelation 17:12 Rule over Ten Currently Existing Nations? Some claim that these passages refer to a gathering of 10 currently existing nations together, while one group teaches that this is referring to 11 nations getting together. Is that what Revelation 17:12-13 refers to? The ramifications of misunderstanding this are enormous.
World War III: Steps in Progress Are there surprising actions going on now that are leading to WWIII? Might a nuclear attack be expected? Does the Bible promise protection to all or only some Christians? How can you be part of those that will be protected? A related video would be Is World War III About to Begin? Can You Escape?
Wars, rumors of wars, and the Apocalypse Jesus foretold a time before the end where there would be wars and rumors of wars. The Apocalypse (the Book of Revelation) warns of the red horseman of war. Now, even secular writers, like Larry Edelson, are worried that wars and rumors of war are the most menacing problem that now haunts the earth? Are they right? What is the solution? This is a sermonette-length video.
Is Russia the King of the North? Some claim it is. But what does the Bible teach? Here is a link to a video, also titled Is Russia the King of the North?
The Eurasian Union, the Kings of the East, and Bible Prophecy Is there a Eurasian union that will be formed? Is one being formed right now? Are any leaders working on that in the 21st century? Does the Bible teach that there will be a Eurasian union? If some type of Eurasian union is formed, who might it benefit and who will it destroy? A related video would be Is The Eurasian Union Rising?
Who is the King of the North? Is there one? Do biblical and Roman Catholic prophecies for the Great Monarch point to the same leader? Should he be followed? Who will be the King of the North discussed in Daniel 11? Is a nuclear attack prophesied to happen to the English-speaking peoples of the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand? When do the 1335 days, 1290 days, and 1260 days (the time, times, and half a time) of Daniel 12 begin? When does the Bible show that economic collapse will affect the United States? In the Spanish language check out ¿Quién es el Rey del Norte? Here is a link to a video titled: The Future King of the North.

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