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Where does the Bible actually begin?

In terms of time order, it would be John 1:1, and not Genesis 1:1 as many assume.

Here is an explanation from the late Herbert W. Armstrong:

If one should ask, where do you find the actual beginning of events in the Bible, most who possess even a slight knowledge of the world’s “best seller” would say, “Why in Genesis chapter one verse one, of course.” WRONG!

The real beginning, in order of time sequence, is found in the New Testament, in the first chapter of John, verse one. The events portrayed in Genesis occurred later – possibly even millions of years later. But the event recorded in John 1:1 reveals an existence perhaps long prior to the time God created the earth and the material universe. Note it: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” It continues, “The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.” The term “all things” is translated in Hebrews 1:3, in the Moffatt translation, as “the UNIVERSE.” The entire UNIVERSE was made by Him!

The fourteenth verse of John 1 says: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” The Personage called the Word was the one who ultimately-yet more than 1900 years ago-was born Jesus Christ. The name, “the Word,” is translated from the original Greek text, and means, literally, just what is translated into English -“Spokesman.” But He was not the Son of God “in the beginning.” Yet the Scriptures reveal that He has always existed, and always will – “from eternity to eternity.” He was “without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days nor end of life . . .” (Heb. 7:3).

So think on this, if you will! Originally there existed only these two Spirit Personages, self-existent. They had creative powers – they had perfect supreme minds – they possessed perfect, holy and righteous CHARACTER.

But THERE WAS NONE ELSE – NOTHING ELSE! There was no matter – no material universe – YET! No other living being or thing. Only these two, equal in mind and powers, except that God was supreme in authority, and the Word in perfect harmony under that authority. They were of one mind, in absolute agreement.

But ALL THINGS – the universe and everything existing in it – was made by the Personage called the Word. Yet, as we read in Ephesians 3:9: “God. . . created ALL THINGS by Jesus Christ.” And prior to becoming Jesus Christ, He was “the Word!” Also, in His human life Jesus said He spoke only as the Father directed. Yes. THINK!

In the eternity even prior to “prehistory” there were these two Supreme Beings. Alone! In the emptiness of space! No other life forms – no other living beings! Nothing else!…

The Perfect Creation

The original Hebrew words (the words originally written by Moses) imply a perfect creation. God reveals Himself as Creator of perfection, light, and beauty. Every reference in the Bible describes the condition of any completed phase of God’s creation as “very good” – perfect. This first verse of the Bible actually speaks of the original PHYSICAL creation in its entirety – the universe – including the earth, perhaps millions of years ago – as a perfect creation, beautiful and perfect as far as its creation was a finished, completed work. God is a perfectionist! In Job 38:4,7, God is speaking specifically of the creation of this earth. He said all the angels (created “sons of God”) shouted for joy at the creation of the earth. This reveals that angels were created before the creation of the earth – and probably before the material universe.

The suns, planets, and astral bodies are material substance. Angels are individually created Spirit beings, composed solely of Spirit. It will come as a surprise to many to learn that angels inhabited this earth BEFORE the creation of man. This passage from Job implies it.

Angels on Earth Sinned

Other passages place angels on earth prior to man. Notice II Peter 2:4-6. First in time order were “angels that sinned.” Next in time sequence, the antediluvian world beginning with Adam, carrying through to the Flood. After that, Sodom and Gomorrah. This Book of books, containing the revealed knowledge of the Creator God, tells us that God created angels as composed of Spirit. But can you imagine angels becoming sinning angels? Angels were created with power of thought, of decision and of choice, else they have no individuality or character. Since sin is the transgression of God’s law, these angels rebelled against God’s law, the basis of God’s government. Notice carefully what is revealed in II Peter 2:4-5:

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; and spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

These verses show that universal sin brings universal destruction to the physical earth. The antediluvian sin, culminating with the flood, was worldwide, universal sin. Notice: “…the earth was filled with violence …. for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth …. for the earth is filled with violence.” (Gen.6:1 1-13). “But Noah found grace in the eyes of the [Eternal]…. Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God” (verses 8-9). All flesh had sinned – over the whole earth. But only Noah “walked with God.” So, the Flood destroyed the whole earth – all but Noah and his family. The homosexual and other sins of Sodom and Gomorrah spread over the territory of those two cities. And physical destruction came to their entire area. The sin of the angels was worldwide; the destruction of the physical earth was worldwide. The verses quoted above place the sinning of the angels prior to the antediluvian sins that started with Adam, prior to the creation of man. And that should be a surprise revealing of one phase of the missing dimension in knowledge! Angels inhabited this earth before the creation of man. And the government of God was administered on earth until the rebellion of the sinning angels.

How long these angels inhabited the earth before the creation of man is not revealed. It might have been millions – or even billions – of years. More on that later. But these angels sinned. Sin is the transgression of God’s law (1 John 3:4). And God’s law is the basis of God’s government. So we know these angels, apparently a third of all the angels (Rev. 12:4), sinned – rebelled against the government of God. And sin carries penalties. The penalty for the sin of the angels is not death, as it is for man. Angels are Immortal Spirit beings and cannot die. These Spirit beings had been given dominion over the PHYSICAL EARTH as a possession and an abode. The universal, worldwide sin of the angels resulted in the physical destruction of the face of the earth…

Now back to Genesis 1: 1-2. Verse 1, as stated above, implies a perfect creation. God is the author of life, of beauty, of perfection. Satan has brought only darkness, ugliness, imperfection, violence. Verse 1 shows the creation of a perfect earth, glorious and beautiful. Verse 2 reveals the result of the sin of the angels.

“And the earth was [became] without form, and void.” The words “without form and void” are translated from the Hebrew tohu and bohu. A better translation is “waste and empty” or chaotic and in confusion.” The word “was” is elsewhere in Genesis translated “became,” as in Genesis 19:26. In other words, the earth, originally created perfect and beautiful, had now become chaotic, waste, and empty, like our moon, except its surface was covered with water.

David was inspired to reveal how God renewed the face of the earth: “Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth” (Ps. 104:30).

Now another surprise for most readers. Here is another bit of the missing dimension in knowledge, actually revealed in the Bible, but unrecognized by religion, by science, and by higher education. From verse 2 of Genesis 1 on, the remainder of this first chapter of the Bible is not describing the original creation of the earth. But it is describing a renewing of the face of the earth, after it had become waste and empty as a result of the sin of the angels.

What is described from verse 2 on, in the supposed “Creation chapter” of the Bible, did occur, according to the Bible, approximately 6,000 years ago. But that could have been millions or trillions of years after the actual creation of the earth described in verse 1! I will comment later on the length of time it might have taken before all earth’s angels turned to rebellion.

The earth had become waste and empty. God did not create it waste and empty, or in confusion. God is not the author of confusion (I Cor.14:33). This same Hebrew word – tohu – meaning waste and empty, was inspired in Isaiah 45:18, where it is translated “in vain.” Using the original Hebrew word, as originally inspired, it reads: “For thus saith the [Eternal] that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain [tohu], he formed it to be inhabited.”

Continue now with the remainder of verse 2 (Gen. 1) (the earth had become chaotic, waste, and empty): “And darkness was upon the face of the deep [the ocean or fluid surface of the earth]. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness” (verses 2-4).

Satan is the author of darkness. The rebellion of the angels had caused the darkness. God is the author of light and truth. Light displays and enhances beauty, and also exposes evil. Darkness hides both. The verses which follow in this first chapter of the Bible describe the renewing of the face of the earth, yielding beautiful lawns, trees, shrubs, flowers, vegetation – then the creation of fish and fowl, animal life, and finally man. (Armstrong HW. Incredible Human Potential, 1978)

So, yes God and the Word existed from the beginning and before anything else was made (John 1:1).

And while there was a creation in Genesis 1:1, there was a gap between that and the recreation that was needed in Genesis 1:2. Thus, this explanation (which, in my view, is the one that best agrees with the records, despite flaws of science) is commonly referred to as the gap theory. And yes, I hold to it (see How Old is the Earth and How Long Were the Days of Creation?).

The Bible teaches:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)

But the Bible does not say when that happened, other than it happened in “the beginning.” Many (including this author) have added up ages of various biblical figures when they became fathers, combined with reigns of biblical kings and other scriptures, and concluded that from the time Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden to present, there has been a little less than 6,000 years (for details, please see the article Does God Have a 6,000 Year Plan? What Year Does the 6,000 Years End?).

Now notice what the KJV translation of Genesis 1:2 states:

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Genesis 1:2, KJV)

Because the NKJV also kept about the same translation, many have been confused about what Genesis 1:2 really teaches.

The following is the Hebrew transliterated into characters that non-Hebrew readers can recognize:

2 weh’ares haytah tohû wabohû wehošek ‘al-penê tehôm werûha elohîm merapet ‘al-penê hammayim.

(Genesis 1:2 from Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, edited by Karl Ellinger and Wilhelm Rudolph. Fifth Revised Edition, edited by Adrian Schenker. © 1977 and 1997 Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft Stuttgart. Used by permission. With certain letters in modern form by COGwriter as html would not display minimized certain characters properly)

Here is a somewhat literal translation of it:

2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters (Genesis 1:2, Young’s Literal Translation)

Here is a more understandable translation of it:

2 But the earth became waste and void, and with darkness on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon on the face of the waters (Genesis 1:2, clarified literal translation)

Before going further, notice something else:

18 For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other” (Isaiah 45:18)

Notice that the earth was NOT created in vain. The word translated as ‘vain’ above is the same Hebrew word (tohu) translated as ‘without form’ in Genesis 1:2 (tohu). Obviously, then, according to the Bible, something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. It should be noted that this is NOT a gap between day 1 and day 2 as some anti-gap people have written, as day 1 began with Genesis 1:3.

“Scripture cannot be broken” (John 10:35) and Isaiah 45:18 is clearly in support of the gap-theory position that there must have been a second creation. So is, Psalm 104:30.

It should be pointed out that in the Hebrew of the Masoretic Old Testament text, there a pause/gap symbol between the first and second verses of Genesis.

Furthermore, in the Masoretic text in which Jewish scholars tried to incorporate enough “indicators” to guide the reader … is one small mark which is technically known as Rebhia which is classified as a “disjunctive accent” intended to notify the reader that he should pause before proceeding to the next verse. Such a mark appears at the end of Genesis 1:1. This mark has been noticed by several scholars including Luther. It is one indication among others, that the waw (וּ‬) which introduces verse 2 should be rendered “but” rather than “and,” a disjunctive rather than a conjunctive. (Custance AC. Without Form and Void. 1970, pp. 18-19)

This shows a gap, not a conjunctive connection, between verses one and two, therefore verse one is NOT an explanation of verse two.

So we see that, anciently, there is an actual gap symbol between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis. And that instead of Genesis 1:2 beginning with “And” like the KJV and Douay Rheims have, it should begin with “But.”

Now, one anti-Gap article asks, “WHY CAN’T WE JUST BELIEVE THE BIBLE?” It then refers to the biblical gap view as an “imagined theory” and claimed it was based on non-biblical evidence (Closing the Gap. co-written by Brian and Kenneth Hoeck for Truth On The Web Ministries. http://www.truthontheweb.org/gapclose.htm accessed 07/23/18), yet it failed to mention that there is an actual pause/gap in the Masoretic text of scripture.

And a correct translation of the Bible makes the point more apparent.

Let’s now see two translations of something else in the Bible:

28 And God blessed them; and God said unto them: ‘Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.’ (Genesis 1:28, Jewish Publication Society Tanakh 1917)

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:28, KJV)

The Original Douay OT (1610) also teaches to “replenish the earth, and subdue it” (though the version I checked uses old English spelling, like “fubdew it”).

To replenish (Strong’s word 4390, transliterated from Hebrew into uwmil°uw) means to “restore (a stock or supply of something) to the former level or condition.” There would be no reason to “replenish” if there had not been a previous time when the Earth existed.

Furthermore, consider that this was the same command (with the same Strong’s word 4390, transliterated from Hebrew into uwmil°uw) God gave Noah after the Great Flood:

1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them: ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth. (Genesis 9:1, Jewish Publication Society Tanakh 1917)

1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. (Genesis 9:1, KJV)

Adam was told to replenish as Noah had.

There was a major time ‘gap’ between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and Jesus existed prior to all of that.

Some items of possibly related interest may include:

How Old is the Earth and How Long Were the Days of Creation? Gap Theory? Does the Bible allow for the creation of the universe and earth billions of years ago? Why do some believe they are no older than 6,000 years old? What is the gap theory? Were the days of creation in Genesis 1:3 through 2:3 24 hours long? Here are links to two sermons: Gap Theory: Doctrine or Modern Heresy? and Genesis, ‘Prehistoric man,’ and the Gap theory. Here is a link to a related article in Spanish: ¿Cuán vieja es la Tierra? ¿Cuán largos fueron los Días de la Creación? ¿Teoría de la brecha?
Is God’s Existence Logical? Is it really logical to believe in God? Yes! Would you like Christian answers to give atheists? This is a free online booklet that deal with improper theories and musings called science related to the origin of the origin of the universe, the origin of life, and evolution. Two animated videos of related interest are also available: Big Bang: Nothing or Creator? and A Lifegiver or Spontaneous Evolution?
Does it Make Physical Sense to believe in God? Some say it is not logical to believe in God. Is that true? Here is a link to a YouTube sermon titled Is it logical to believe in God?
Is Evolution Probable or Impossible or Is God’s Existence Logical? Part II This short article clearly answers what ‘pseudo-scientists’ refuse to acknowledge. Here is a link to a YouTube video titled Is There Another View of Evolution? and another titled Quickly Disprove Evolution as the Origin of Life.
Did Angels Marry Human Women? Many insist this is so and also that this mating caused giants to be born. Did this come from the ‘Book of Enoch’? What does Genesis 6:4 really mean? A related video is also available: Did Angels Marry Women and Produce Giants?
Where Did God Come From? Any ideas? And how has God been able to exist? Who is God?
How is God Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient? Here is a biblical article which answers what many really wonder about it.
Has time been lost? It Saturday the seventh day of the week?
Questions and Answers from Genesis Many wonder about certain early events that this article discusses.
Was Unitarianism the Teaching of the Bible or Early Church? Many, including Jehovah’s Witnesses, claim it was, but was it?
What is the Meaning of Life? Who does God say is happy? What is your ultimate destiny? Do you really know? Does God actually have a plan for YOU personally? There is also a video titled What is the meaning of your life?
The MYSTERY of GOD’s PLAN: Why Did God Create Anything? Why Did God Make You? This free online book helps answers some of the biggest questions that human have, including the biblical meaning of life. Here is a link to three related sermons: Mysteries of God’s Plan, Mysteries of Truth, Sin, Rest, Suffering, and God’s Plan, Mystery of Race, and The Mystery of YOU.

1698 Dutch map relating to Denmark descending from the tribe of Dan
(photo from Wikipedia)

COGwriter

Israel365News posted the following (bolding in source):

August 17, 2023

The tribe of Dan points us to a treasure that is found in their journeys to the Promised Land.

Dan was the fifth of Jacob’s sons, the first by Bilhah, the maid of Rachel. When he was born, Rachel, who had suffered infertility for some time exclaimed:

“God has vindicated me; he has listened to my plea and given me a son.” Because of this she named him Dan.” Genesis 30:6.

Dan, in Hebrew is translated as “judge” דן, from the verb דין (din), to judge or govern. God had overruled her circumstance and ruled in her favor.

The symbol for this tribe is the scales of justice because they were appointed to be judges, and the eagle because it was on the standard of Dan. Jacob likened him to a serpent because it forecasted idolatry, but when this tribe returns and is redeemed God promises to remove all idolatry and give them a new heart (Ezekiel 36:24), so this image of a serpent no longer applies. The twelve tribes gathered behind the four standards when they gathered around the Tabernacle. …

The Tribe of Dan points to a great hidden treasure – the Ark of the Covenant that has remained hidden since the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Men have searched for 2,000 years for this treasure. As a greater interest comes forth in the building of the Third Temple, an interest in finding this great work of the Ark has intensified. …

One of the greatest symbols God (Hashem) gave the Jewish people is the “Ark of the Covenant.” In it were three items: 1) The Ten Commandments written on two tablets of stone, 2) The budding rod of Aaron, and 3) The container of Manna. The Ten Commandments were given as a covenant with the Jewish people at Mt. Saini. They are the basis of morality and law. Most nation’s modern laws are still based on these moral imperatives. The judges of Israel were to carry out these moral mandates.

Dan produced judges for Israel, so they were to be guardians of the law of God. 

As the Ark of the Covenant traveled with them, the law of God was in their midst.  …

In a spiritual sense, HaShem is putting the Ark of His covenant in the hearts of His people, and I believe we will see the literal Ark restored in the Third Temple as well. …

Where is the Tribe of Dan now in the Nations?

You will find the tribe of Dan in several places on this map showing their original assigned land and the new location up north.  Descendants of the tribe of Dan are said to be found in several nations including in modern day Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Northern England, and Denmark (Dan’s Mark). Some scholars have pointed to the first dynasty in Korea as evidence of Dan establishing a presence in North Korea with the Dangun Empire. The founder was considered “The Lord of Heaven.” He established a moral code and laws. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangun). The remnants of this tribe are scattered throughout the world. https://www.israel365news.com/374631/the-sons-of-jacob-promised-return-series-the-tribe-of-dan/

Since the above mentioned Wikipedia, notice something that it has about the tribe of Dan:

A 15th-century Latin chronicle, “Chronicon Holsatiae vetus”, found in Gottfried Leibniz‘s Accessiones historicae (1698),  states the Danes were of the Tribe of Dan.^[13] The antiquarian Henry Spelman in 1620 had made a similar claim that the Danes were the Israelite Tribe of Dan, based on the apparent similarity in name.^[14] Additionally, proponents of Nordic and British Israelism have made similar claims about descent from the tribe of Dan. British Israelite authors such as John Cox Gawler and J. H. Allen identified the Tribe of Dan with Denmark.^[15] While another prominent British Israelite author, Edward Hine, took the view that the tribe of Dan had colonized Denmark and Ulster in Ireland.^[16][17] (Tribe of Dan. Wikipedia, accessed 08/17/23)

More on the tribes of Israel, including Dan, can be found in the free online book: Lost Tribes and Prophecies: What will happen to Australia, the British Isles, Canada, Europe, New Zealand and the United States of America?

As far as the Ark of the Covenant goes, the Temple Institute in Jerusalem believes that the Ark is somewhere under the area called the Temple Mount and seems to suspect it will be found for it to be able to construct a Jewish temple.

In its newsletter of Elul 5, 5781/August 13, 2021, the Temple Institute had the following photo and a link to the following:

(Photo in Temple Mount newsletter)

DOES THIS MARK THE SPOT OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT?

The square structure seen in the middle of the photo from the Temple Mount is a cap closing off an open passage which leads to a large underground chamber, which was excavated in Temple times. It was forty years today (Elul 4) that Rabbi Yehudah Getz, who for 27 years was the Rabbi of the Western Wall, attempted with the assistance of a number of his students and others, to break through an underground wall which sealed off the chamber in the hope of finding there the Ark of the Covenant. Ancient Jewish tradition maintains that the Ark was hidden away in a specially prepared subterranean chamber by King Josiah in order to keep it safe from the approaching Babylonian army.08/12/21 https://www.facebook.com/templeinstitute/photos/a.86889944968/10151591160214969

Previously, the Temple Institute asked if Vendyl Jones found it in April 1992 (see ‘DID VENDYL JONES DISCOVER THE TEMPLE KETORET INCENSE COMPOUND?’ What about ‘Indiana Jones’ and the Ark of the Covenant?).

Let it be noted that the Bible shows that well after Solomon’s sons would have died, that the Ark was still in Jerusalem:

35:1 Now Josiah kept a Passover to the LORD in Jerusalem, and they slaughtered the Passover lambs on the fourteenth day of the first month. 2 And he set the priests in their duties and encouraged them for the service of the house of the LORD. 3 Then he said to the Levites who taught all Israel, who were holy to the LORD: “Put the holy ark in the house which Solomon the son of David, king of Israel, built. It shall no longer be a burden on your shoulders. Now serve the LORD your God and His people Israel (2 Chronicles 35:1-3).

Josiah was the sixteenth king of Judah and reportedly reigned from c. 640–609 BCE. Though some claim it went to Ethiopia before then, scripture contradicts that view.

Anyway, some have also claimed that the Ark of the Covenant is in Ireland. In May of 2022, my wife Joyce and I visited two locations some have thought it may be at. It did not seem to be there for different reasons:

1. The spot on the Hill of Tara some have claimed it was at had been sufficiently excavated that it would seemed to have been found if it were there.
2. The other spot we visited, known as Cairn T, had so many pagan symbols it seemed very unlikely it would have been placed there.

That said, PCG points to the location on the hill of Tara. Here is something it published back in 2013:

The ark of the covenant … a fascinating verse in the Bible says that in this modern era, many people will be talking about it. The implication is that very soon, the ark of the covenant is going to be found!

That verse is found in Jeremiah, a book of prophecy that was written for this end time (Jeremiah 30:1-9). So this prophecy about the ark is for us today.

If the ark were found, it would electrify many people around the world!

People don’t know where the ark is, but I believe that the Bible—and a certain nation’s history—tell us in which country it is located today. …

Where Is the Ark?

Irish annals show that when Jeremiah migrated to Ireland, he brought with him more than just the princess of Judah who carried on David’s throne. “Besides the royal family, Jeremiah brought with them some remarkable things,” Mr. Armstrong continued, “including a harp, an ark, and a wonderful stone called ‘lia-fail,’ or ‘stone of destiny’” (op. cit., emphasis mine). …

F. R. A. Glover, who ascertained that the British monarchy was aware of its linkage to King David, wrote extensively about these objects having made their way to Ireland with Jeremiah. His book England the Remnant of Judah and the Israel of Ephraim records this history.

Glover stated that the grave of Queen Tea-Tephi lies in the Hill of Tara, the origin of Irish history. In his research, he found that she had been buried with the two stone tablets of the Ten Commandments, along with the ark of the covenant. (Flurry G. Finding the Ark of the covenant. The Philadelphia Trumpet, December 2013)

Of course the Ark still has not been found. Here is something from PCG’s Gerald Flurry in 2023:

British historians have written that Ireland’s famous Hill of Tara is where the ark of the covenant was placed, and that it is still there, buried with Tea-Tephi. …

Jeremiah arriving with the ark of God on an island populated by Israelites made quite an impression on them. They were from the tribe of Dan, and God had somehow prepared them somewhat for the coming of Jeremiah, Tea-Tephi and her husband, who became king. These people knew from their Hebrew Bibles that God spoke to Israel from that ark. (Flurry G. Jeremiah Builds a Kingdom. The Philadelphia Trumpet, March 2023)

However, while an Ireland location is not necessarily impossible, if the Ark of the Covenant exists on the earth, a location in the land of Israel seems to make the most sense.

One concern that I have had is that if the Ark of the Covenant is found, this could possibly get more of the Jews to support the ecumenical end-time religion that will call itself ‘Catholic.’ This would be consistent with biblical (Revelation 13:4,8; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) and Greco-Roman Catholic prophecies (see further below).

The first direct reference to the ark of the covenant in the Bible is in the Book of Exodus:

10 “And they shall make an ark of acacia wood; two and a half cubits shall be its length, a cubit and a half its width, and a cubit and a half its height. 11 And you shall overlay it with pure gold, inside and out you shall overlay it, and shall make on it a molding of gold all around. 12 You shall cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in its four corners; two rings shall be on one side, and two rings on the other side. 13 And you shall make poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold. 14 You shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, that the ark may be carried by them. 15 The poles shall be in the rings of the ark; they shall not be taken from it. 16 And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you. (Exodus 25:10-16)

The Bible is clear that the Ark of the Covenant is or will be in heaven:

19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. (Revelation 11:19)

It has been suggested that the physical ark of the covenant that the children of Israel had was patterned on one in heaven, thus it could still be on earth.

Notice also the following Islamic view of the Ark:

The Book of Revelation says the Ark is in the temple of God in heaven (Rev. 11:19). Muslim scholars say it will be found near the end of times by the Mahdi – a messianic figure in Islam. http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102119

It is interesting, however, that many of the Muslims believe that their Mahdi will rise up after the finding of the Ark (the Mahdi of Islamic prophecy seems to be the same one that the Bible indicates will be the final King of the South). Events seem to be happening in the Arab nations that align with the rising up of such a leader. Perhaps, if the Ark is publicly shown, he could point to it as proof that his timing for rising up was prophesied. We will see.

I perhaps should add that certain Roman Catholic prophecies indicate that the two witnesses (which they often consider will be Enoch and Elijah) will rise up after the Ark is found:

Bl. Dionysus of Luetzenberg…prophecies:

“After the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, Enoch and Elias will restore the Holy Sacrament of the Altar; Because of the fact that the Ark of the Covenant will be in the possession of the two holy prophets and not in Antichrist’s hands, the Jews will recognize that Jesus is the true Messias…”

( Luetzenberg, Antichristus Chapter 29 as cited in Birch D.A. Trial, Tribulation & Triumph. Queenship Publishing, Goleta (CA), 1996, p. 509)

Now the Bible is clear that the Ark of the Covenant will be in heaven:

Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. (Revelation 11:19)

And it may only be there now.

But since both Islamic and Roman Catholic prophecies suggest that it will be found, and various Jews and Protestants also believe so, it is possible that some of them will point to the Ark in Ethiopia (some believe Ethiopia has the original Ark, while others believe that it has an early copy) or Ireland or one in Jerusalem (or elsewhere) as proof that their prophecies are to be fulfilled. Or Roman Catholics may claim that if the Ark of the Covenant has not been found, that some will claim that this is additional proof that the real two witnesses are not God’s two witnesses. Notice that the Roman Catholics want to place their practices on it (by Holy Sacrament, they seem to mean their Eucharistic practices; here is an article about their origins: Marcus, the Marcosians, & Mithraism: Developers of the Eucharist?), these are the same Roman Catholics that also keep trying to gain control of the Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill.

Others say that Zion was really on the eastern side side of Jerusalem, and thus, that may be where the Ark could be or end up.

Back in October 2013, while attempting to take some photos and to video some of the remains of the Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill, I was approached by a Jewish rabbi named Avraham Goldstein of the Diaspora Yeshiva. He asked why I was there, so I explained it. He then asked me if the Continuing Church of God would like to be involved in an archaeological project related to that general area. He mentioned doing excavations related to what some believe is David’s tomb, located below. Many consider that only a legend and not the real location–though the actual location of David’s tomb has not been verified in many centuries. However a Jewish rabbi who claimed to visit it in 1163 A.D. stated it was below this particular Mt. Zion.

Avraham Goldstein also believes that the ark of the covenant may be directly below or near it via tunnels–hence that Jewish scholar does not agree with the position of the Temple Institute on its location. He offered to take me below in the tunnels on my next visit to Jerusalem. I told him that I was interested, but I have not been to Israel since. Yet, I expect to go again within the next several years.

The following is an interview from a narrator named Joseph (J below) and the Jewish rabbi Gerald Goldstein of the Mount Zion Foundation (RG below).

RG: We are standing on the roof of King David’s Tomb. Look around you at the view. You can understand why David wanted to take out this fortress before attacking Jerusalem itself…Samuel 2…Scripture is also very clear about where Kind David brought the Holy Ark of the Covenant. It says here in chapter 6 that he brought the Ark of the Covenant up to the City of David, that is the fortress of Zion…here to this very place… MOUNT ZION, dancing all in a very ecstatic and wonderful way…

J: So this place really is Mt Zion!

RG: Well there is a real established tradition, first recorded in writing by a student of the Ramban over 800 years ago, which says exactly this. Prior to the building of the Temple, Mt Zion… this very Mt Zion where we are standing…is where the Ark of the Covenant and the Divine presence resided. (Glick N. The Authenticity of Mt Zion and King David’s Tomb. 2010 יום שני, 2 באוגוסט. http://rabbinathanglick.blogspot.com/2010/08/authenticity-of-mt-zion-and-king-davids.html viewed 11/17/13)

If the ark of the covenant is now below the Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill, known as Mt. Zion, that would have ramifications for the world as well as the Continuing Church of God (see Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill). It possibly could be related to a dream by a lady named Fesilafai Fiso Leaana of New Zealand. She had a dream after going to bed on December 8, 2012 that included a comment about the Ark which will be cited later in this post (see also  Temple Institute claims about the ‘Foundation Stone’ not truly scriptural and differ from Continuing Church of God beliefs and Dreams, the Bible, and the Continuing Church of God).

Now, I should add that I have read other materials that say this Mt. Zion location cannot be, but again no one seems to really know for sure.

The Bible shows at one time the ark was in Mt. Zion:

15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the Lord with shouting and with the sound of the trumpet. 16 Now as the ark of the Lord came into the City of David, Michal, Saul’s daughter, looked through a window and saw King David leaping and whirling before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart. 17 So they brought the ark of the Lord, and set it in its place in the midst of the tabernacle that David had erected for it. Then David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord. 18 And when David had finished offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the Lord of hosts. 19 Then he distributed among all the people, among the whole multitude of Israel, both the women and the men, to everyone a loaf of bread, a piece of meat, and a cake of raisins. So all the people departed, everyone to his house. (2 Samuel 6:15-19)

But it also shows that the ark moved from Mt. Zion:

1 Now Solomon assembled the elders of Israel and all the heads of the tribes, the chief fathers of the children of Israel, to King Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of the Lord from the City of David, which is Zion. 2 Therefore all the men of Israel assembled with King Solomon at the feast in the month of Ethanim, which is the seventh month. 3 So all the elders of Israel came, and the priests took up the ark. 4 Then they brought up the ark of the Lord, the tabernacle of meeting, and all the holy furnishings that were in the tabernacle. The priests and the Levites brought them up. 5 Also King Solomon, and all the congregation of Israel who were assembled with him, were with him before the ark, sacrificing sheep and oxen that could not be counted or numbered for multitude. 6 Then the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the Lord to its place, into the inner sanctuary of the temple, to the Most Holy Place, under the wings of the cherubim. 7 For the cherubim spread their two wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubim overshadowed the ark and its poles. 8 The poles extended so that the ends of the poles could be seen from the holy place, in front of the inner sanctuary; but they could not be seen from outside. And they are there to this day. 9 Nothing was in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. 10 And it came to pass, when the priests came out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. 12 Then Solomon spoke: “The Lord said He would dwell in the dark cloud. 13 I have surely built You an exalted house, And a place for You to dwell in forever.” (1 Kings 8:1-13)

So, the ark was moved and did not stay there forever, as King Josiah had to have it moved it back (2 Chronicles 35:1-3). Also, since the temple that Solomon built was destroyed, the ark did not stay in it forever.

Furthermore, notice:

8 Arise, O Lord, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. 9 Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness,And let Your saints shout for joy. 10 For Your servant David’s sake, Do not turn away the face of Your Anointed. 11 The Lord has sworn in truth to David; He will not turn from it: “I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body. 12 If your sons will keep My covenant And My testimony which I shall teach them, Their sons also shall sit upon your throne forevermore.” 13 For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place: 14 “This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it. 15 I will abundantly bless her provision; I will satisfy her poor with bread. 16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation, And her saints shall shout aloud for joy. 17 There I will make the horn of David grow;I will prepare a lamp for My Anointed. 18 His enemies I will clothe with shame, But upon Himself His crown shall flourish.” (Psalm 132:8-18)

While Solomon wanted it to be in the temple he built to house the ark forever, God had David write Zion was the chosen location. If the ark of the covenant is found and now is below the Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill, known as Mt. Zion or perhaps another area called Zion, that would have ramifications for the world as well as the Continuing Church of God.

Fesilafai Fiso Leaana of New Zealand had a dream after going to bed on December 8, 2012. Here is a report that Fesilafai Fiso Leaana wrote about her dream:

A few months before my dream, my husband and I noticed a contradiction in practice, regarding the sabbath commandment in LCG, from there we started to pray continuously for God to lead us to where the truth is. It seems God has answered our prayers through the dream.

The dream began with myself and approximately 70 New Zealand Living Church of God brethren, then suddenly LCG vanished (I was wondering where is LCG?) and I was left standing with approximately 10 people excluding myself, on a very high building. We were standing on the very top of the building, where I couldn’t see the bottom, there were no other buildings, just this building. I could not see the bottom of the building but just clouds below the building and clouds surrounding the building which led to a beautiful white mountain – a mountain that had no ends on either side. The building was pretty close to the mountain, I could see the top of the mountain. The mountain was all white and so beautiful. I remember that I began to be filled with joy and peace. But also wondering how we got up on this building and confused why there were no other buildings but the clouds seemed like it was hiding the building and I felt protected or it felt like a safe place. I looked around there were still only about ten people there, the only person I could clearly recognize was Shirley constantly working, the approximate ten others were just sitting and standing around. So I walked around the building looking for the large crowd from LCG, but all I kept returning to was that Shirley was working and doing different types of work alone while the others were still sitting and standing around the building with me. I wondered why she was working a lot. I could not find LCG.

Then suddenly a message came to my mind: “There is a secret in the mountain”. And I was so happy to know that, I was still feeling elated and could still see the beautiful white mountain and wondered about the secret. Then I asked: “What is the secret?” Then the message said, nobody knows the secret in the mountain but only you have received this message that there is a secret in the mountain. Then I asked ‘what is the secret in the mountain?’ I received a message to my mind that told me that “the secret in the mountain is the Ark of the Covenant”. Then the dream abruptly ended because I woke up. And immediately, I woke up my husband and recounted the dream to him, and I told my husband that it reminded me of when God gave Moses the Ten Commandments on the mountain and that the mountain was also covered with clouds.

Within several weeks of the dream, ten people in New Zealand, including Shirley Gestro (the Shirley above) began to attend the newly formed Continuing Church of God.

Biblically, mountains can symbolize government (Psalm 30:7; Isaiah 11:9; Daniel 2:35; Zechariah 4:7) and white purity or cleanness (Isaiah 1:18; Revelation 7:14, 19:14). Clouds around a mountain (or at least the top of it) could show a separation—maybe a separation that keeps many from seeing all of the truth (cf. Job 22:14; Lamentations 3:44) or recognizing top leadership?

The dream seemed to be a signal to confirm that the Philadelphia mantle was not with the Living Church of God, but instead was associated with someone that that had something to do with the ark of the covenant (see also Dreams, the Bible, the Radio Church of God, and the Continuing Church of God).

In the Spring and Fall of 2013 (which is before I learned of Fesilafai Fiso Leaana’s dream), a couple of different people emailed me and asked if the Continuing Church of God might possibly be involved in actually finding the Ark–and those two people knew nothing about the dream that Fesilafai Fiso Leaana of New Zealand had related to the Continuing Church of God when they originally asked me about it as it was not reported publicly until November 2013. We may have future involvement on this ark matter.

Anyway, it remains my view that there is a chance that we will see the Ark or we will see a strong claim that someone has located the Ark within the next decade or so.

We also put together the following video in 2023 related to the Ark of the Covenant:

14:28

Where is the Ark of the Covenant?

Protestant writer Michael Snyder says that the Ark of the Covenant from the Bible is about to be find and that he knows exactly where it is. The Temple Institute believes it will be found soon and that it knows where it is. Why, supposedly, has no one uncovered it? Is Daniel 9:27 proof that the Ark of the Covenant is about to be found? What about Vendyl Jones? Is this Ark in Jerusalem in a cave or passage under what is called the Temple Mount? Does the Bible state that Jeremiah the prophet hid it just before the Babylonians took over? What about the Hill of Tara or Cairn T in Ireland? Does a comparison of a 1710 document and scriptures in 2 Chronicles 35:1-3 related to King Josiah eliminate the common view about a possible Ethiopia location? Do Muslim and Roman Catholic prophecies point to it being found? Are there any scriptures that support rabbi Avraham Goldstein’s contention that it is under or in Mt. Zion? How might the Continuing Church of God be involved? Any connection to a dream from someone in New Zealand? Does the Book of Revelation show the Ark of the Covenant being in heaven? Could there be an actual physical Ark that can be found? Dr. Thiel and Steve Dupuie discuss these matters.

Here is a link to our video: Where is the Ark of the Covenant?

Whether or not the Temple Institute knows the location of the the Ark or if the tribe of Dan has anything to do with it now , developments related to the Ark of the Covenant may well have prophetic ramifications.

Some items of possibly related interest may include:

Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill Could this building, often referred to as the Cenacle, which is located on a Mount Zion, possibly have been the oldest actual Christian church building? There is also a video titled Might the oldest church building have prophetic ramifications?
Why is a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem Not Required? Although people like Timothy LaHaye teach a third Jewish temple is required, who is ‘the temple of God” in the New Testament? Does the Bible require a rebuilt Jewish Temple? Here is a related item in the Spanish language ¿Por qué no se requiere un templo judío en Jerusalén? Here is a link to a sermon titled The Temple, Prophecy, and the Work.
Nascent Sanhedrin and Prophecy The reconstituted Sanhedrin wants the reimplementation of animal sacrifices. A related video is titled Sanhedrin pushing animal sacrifices. And a newer one is: Sanhedrin makes burnt offering to dedicate altar!
The Red Heifer, Jewish Beliefs, and the End of the World The Temple Institute is watching a ‘red heifer.’ Why might this be important in the sequence of end time events? Here is a related link in the Spanish language Novilla roja descubierta en EE.UU. e Instituto del Templo está interesado en ella. Here are links to three related videos in English: Red Heifers and the Fate of the World and The Red Heifer and the End of the World and 5 Red Heifers and Year 5783?
Location of the Prophesied Physical Temple Leroy Neff gives his rationalse for the location of the coming temple.
Solomon’s Temple This is a a 5 minute animated film that shows one artist’s understanding of the details about Solomon’s temple.
Dreams, the Bible, the Radio Church of God, and the Continuing Church of God How has God used dreams in the past? Does God still use dreams? Did He use any involving those in the Continuing Church of God? Here is a link in Spanish: Sueños, la Biblia, la Iglesia de Dios de la Radio, y la Continuación de la Iglesia de Dios. A related sermon is also available: Dreams, COGs, and One Man Rule.
Gr3eco-Roman Catholic Prophecies: Do They Mirror, Highlight, or Contradict Biblical Prophecies? People of all faiths may be surprised to see what various Roman and Orthodox Catholic prophets have been predicting as many of their predictions will be looked to in the 21st century.
Who Are The Two Witnesses? What is their job? What does the Bible reveal? What has the Church of God taught on this subject? Might even Roman Catholic prophecies give some clues here? A related sermon is available: Prophecy and the Two Witnesses. Here is a related link in Spanish/español:¿Quiénes son los dos testigos? Here is a sermon in Spanish: ¿Quienes son los Dos Testigos?
Lost Tribes and Prophecies: What will happen to Australia, the British Isles, Canada, Europe, New Zealand and the United States of America? Where did those people come from? Can you totally rely on DNA? What about other peoples? Do you really know what will happen to Europe and the English-speaking peoples? What about Africa, Asia, South America, and the Islands? This free online book provides scriptural, scientific, historical references, and commentary to address those matters. Here are links to related sermons: Lost tribes, the Bible, and DNA; Lost tribes, prophecies, and identifications; 11 Tribes, 144,000, and Multitudes; Israel, Jeremiah, Tea Tephi, and British Royalty; Gentile European Beast; Royal Succession, Samaria, and Prophecies; Asia, Islands, Latin America, Africa, and Armageddon;  When Will the End of the Age Come?;  Rise of the Prophesied King of the North; Christian Persecution from the Beast; WWIII and the Coming New World Order; and Woes, WWIV, and the Good News of the Kingdom of God.

WATCH in full: As he celebrates his 84th birthday on Wednesday, former Prime Minister John Howard predicts that the voice referendum will fail and will go down significantly. https://t.co/bYNKemfPWg

— The Australian (@australian) July 25, 2023

COGwriter

The BBC reported the following:

Colonisation by British ‘luckiest thing’ to happen to Australia – John Howard

July 26, 2023

Colonisation was “the luckiest thing that happened” to Australia, the nation’s second-longest serving Prime Minister John Howard has said.

His remarks were made in relation to a historic referendum due to take place this year on Indigenous recognition.

If successful, the vote will change Australia’s constitution to give First Nations peoples a greater say over the laws and policies that affect them. …

Speaking to the Australian Newspaper about the upcoming vote, Mr Howard described colonisation as “inevitable”.

“I do hold the view that the luckiest thing that happened to this country was being colonised by the British,” he said. “Not that they were perfect by any means, but they were infinitely more successful and beneficent colonisers than other European countries.” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66309637

While the British colonizing Australia was NOT because of luck, yes, it was inevitable.

Why?

Because of various biblical prophecies.

The Bible shows that the Hebrew patriarch Jacob, also named Israel, had 12 sons (Genesis 35:22). His son Joseph appears to have been the eleventh one. This Joseph is the one who had dreams (Genesis 37:5-11) and God gave him the ability to interpret them, but his envious brothers sold him into slavery (Genesis 37:26-28). He is the one that told Pharaoh to store food during seven good years to prepare for seven very lean years (Genesis 41:14-37).

Even though he was not the oldest son, the Bible shows that Joseph received the birthright:

1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel–he was indeed the firstborn, but because he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph, the son of Israel, so that the genealogy is not listed according to the birthright; 2 yet Judah prevailed over his brothers, and from him came a ruler, although the birthright was Joseph’s– (1 Chronicles 5:1-2)

In this case, the birthright had to do with future national greatness, consistent with what was first promised to Abraham. That was then passed down to Abraham’s son Isaac, then to Isaac’s son Jacob.

Now, before Jacob’s death in Egypt, Joseph took his two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh to visited his ailing father.

1 Now it came to pass after these things that Joseph was told, “Indeed your father is sick”; and he took with him his two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim. 2 And Jacob was told, “Look, your son Joseph is coming to you”; and Israel strengthened himself and sat up on the bed. 3 Then Jacob said to Joseph: “God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me, 4 and said to me, ‘Behold, I will make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will make of you a multitude of people, and give this land to your descendants after you as an everlasting possession.’ 5 And now your two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine. (Genesis 48:1-5)

So, Jacob asked more or less adopted Ephraim and Manasseh as his own sons. When he saw them there, he then called to bless them:

8 Then Israel saw Joseph’s sons, and said, “Who are these?” 9 And Joseph said to his father, “They are my sons, whom God has given me in this place.” And he said, “Please bring them to me, and I will bless them.” (Genesis 48:8-9)

12 So Joseph brought them from beside his knees, and he bowed down with his face to the earth. 13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim with his right hand toward Israel’s left hand, and Manasseh with his left hand toward Israel’s right hand, and brought them near him. 14 Then Israel stretched out his right hand and laid it on Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand on Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands knowingly, for Manasseh was the firstborn. (Genesis 48:12-14)

Now, Joseph had directed Ephraim, the youngest son, toward Jacob’s left hand and Manasseh, the eldest, toward Jacob’s right hand (verse 13), so the firstborn would receive the greater blessing. But notice that Jacob crossed his arms and laid his right hand on the younger Ephraim, “guiding his hands wittingly” (verse 14).

Joseph thought this was a mistake, but it wasn’t:

18 And Joseph said to his father, “Not so, my father, for this one is the firstborn; put your right hand on his head.” 19 But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations.” 20 So he blessed them that day, saying, “By you Israel will bless, saying, ‘May God make you as Ephraim and as Manasseh!’ ” And thus he set Ephraim before Manasseh. (Genesis 48:18-20)

Ephraim was thus blessed so that his descendants would become a company of nations and share the staggering birthright blessings with his brother Manasseh.

Ephraim represents the British descended peoples. We see them in the British Isles, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, with some also in lands like South Africa. The descendants of Manasseh ended up settling what became the USA–prophesied to be great (verse 18). Australia and New Zealand began to be Anglicized after the British explorer Captain James Cook visited them in the late 18th century and mapped parts of their coastlines.

Now, let’s notice that Jacob/Israel also gave an end time prophesy for the descendants of Joseph:

1 And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days: …

22 “Joseph is a fruitful bough, A fruitful bough by a well; His branches run over the wall. 23 The archers have bitterly grieved him, Shot at him and hated him. 24 But his bow remained in strength, And the arms of his hands were made strong By the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob (From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel), 25 By the God of your father who will help you, And by the Almighty who will bless you With blessings of heaven above, Blessings of the deep that lies beneath, Blessings of the breasts and of the womb. 26 The blessings of your father Have excelled the blessings of my ancestors, Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills. They shall be on the head of Joseph, And on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brothers. (Genesis 49:1, 22-26)

The “crown” in this case seems to refer to the British crown.

A crown those in Australia and New Zealand have been at least partially under since the 19th century. A crown that exists to this day.

The word “Australia” seems to signify southern lands. And speaking of southern lands like Australia and New Zealand, notice a prophecy in Isaiah 49:12:

12 Surely these shall come from afar; Look! Those from the north and the west, And these from the land of Sinim. (Isaiah 49:12, NKJV)

ecce isti de longe venient et ecce illi ab aquilone et mari et isti de terra australi (Isaiah 49:12; Jerome translation: Latin Vulgate Bible)

Some have speculated that the lands from afar, specifically Sinim (NKJV)/isti de terra australi (Latin Vulgate) could be referring to certain modern lands in the South Pacific.

For example, Wikipedia (accessed 03/14/12) has stated:

Australia … the name Australia is derived from the Latin australis, meaning “southern”. The country has been referred to colloquially as Oz since the early 20th century …

Legends of Terra Australis Incognita—an “unknown land of the South”—date back to Roman times and were commonplace in medieval geography, although not based on any documented knowledge of the continent. Following European discovery, names for the Australian landmass were often references to the famed Terra Australis.

The earliest recorded use of the word Australia in English was in 1625 in “A note of Australia del Espíritu Santo, written by Sir Richard Hakluyt”, published by Samuel Purchas in Hakluytus Posthumus, a corruption of the original Spanish name “Tierra Austral del Espíritu Santo” (Southern Land of the Holy Spirit) for an island in Vanuatu. The Dutch adjectival form Australische was used in a Dutch book in Batavia (Jakarta) in 1638, to refer to the newly discovered lands to the south. Australia was later used in a 1693 translation of Les Aventures de Jacques Sadeur dans la Découverte et le Voyage de la Terre Australe, a 1676 French novel by Gabriel de Foigny, under the pen-name Jacques Sadeur. Referring to the entire South Pacific region, Alexander Dalrymple used it in An Historical Collection of Voyages and Discoveries in the South Pacific Ocean in 1771.

Notice something that the late Herbert W. Armstrong taught about what this passage of scripture in Isaiah 49:12 may be referring to:

Referring to the house of ISRAEL, not Judah (Isaiah 49:3,6), God says: “Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the NORTH and from the WEST; and these from the land of Sinim” (Isa. 49:12). In the Hebrew, the language in which this was originally inspired, there is no word for “northwest,” but this term is designated by the phrase, “the north and the west.” It means, literally, the northwest! The Vulgate renders “Sinim” as “Australi,” or “Australia.” So we now have the location northwest of Jerusalem and even spreading around the world. (Armstrong HW. THE UNITED STATES AND BRITAIN IN PROPHECY, 1954, 1967, 1972, 1975, 1980 edition)

Notice some comments on Isaiah 49:12 about Sinim:

Isaiah 49:12
Meaning, the south country, so that Christ will deliver his from all the parts of the world. (Geneva Notes, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2005, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Isaiah 49:12

Behold, these shall come from far … and these from the land of Sinim. The Arabians and other Asiatics called China Sin, or Tchin: the Chinese had no special name for themselves, but either adopted that of the reigning dynasty or some high-sounding titles. This view of “Sinim” suits the context, which requires a people to be meant “from far,” and distinct, from those “from the north and from the west” (Gesenius). (Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Sinim

a people noticed in (Isaiah 49:12) as living at the extremity of the known world. They may be identified with the classical Sinoe, the inhabitants of the southern part of China. (Smith’s Bible Dictionary)

Isaiah 49:12…

From the land of Sinim – There have been many different opinions in regard to the ‘land of Sinim.’ The name ‘Sinim’ (סינים siyniym) occurs nowhere else in the Bible, and of course it is not easy to determine what country is meant. It is evident that it is some remote country, and it is remarkable that it is the only land specified here by name. Some, it is said, should come from far, some from the north, others from the west, and another portion from the country here specifically mentioned. Jerome understands it of the south in general – Isti de terra Australi…The Chaldee also interprets it as Jerome has done, of the south. The Syriac has not translated it, but retained the name Sinim…Grotius supposes that it means the region of Sinim to the south of Palestine, and Vitringa also coincides with this opinion…

Gesenius supposes that it refers to the Chinese, and that the country here referred to is Sina or China. ‘This very ancient and celebrated people,’ says he, ‘was known to the Arabians and Syrians by the name Sin, Tein, Tshini; and a Hebrew writer might well have heard of them, especially if sojourning in Babylon, the metropolis as it were of all Asia. This name appears to have been given to the Chinese by the other Asiatics; for the Chinese themselves do not employ it, and seem indeed to be destitute of any ancient domestic name, either adopting the names of the reigning dynasties, or ostentatiously assuming high-sounding titles, as “people of the empire in the center of the world.” (Notes on the Bible by Albert Barnes [1834]. viewed 03/13/12)

The above is interesting and perhaps Isaiah 49:12 hints that Australia/New Zealand, which are lands of the southern hemisphere and past China (from the perspective of Jerusalem), could have possibly been identified so long ago. This is not necessarily specific identification of the lands now known as Australia and New Zealand but it seems possible. From a Jerusalem perspective, Australia and New Zealand are far off lands and in the south east (and north and west were referring somewhere else–possible the UK and USA respectively).

Bible prophecy shows that unless the Australian and New Zealand people change their ways and repent of their national sins, they stand to lose it all.

In the 28th chapter of the Book of Deuteronomy, God long ago revealed how the Israelite-descended peoples, such as Australia and New Zealand could recover from their problems and be guaranteed prosperity in the future:

1″Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth. 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God:
3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country.
4 “Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.
5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.
6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.
7 “The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.
8 “The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
9 “The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10 Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them. (Deuteronomy 28:1-14)

Many blessings.

Notice that all these blessings were guaranteed only “if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day, being careful to do them, and if you do not turn aside from any of the words which I command you… to the right hand or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them” (verses 13 and 14, RSV).

Then God gives a startling list of curses for disobedience:

15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

16 “Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country.
17 “Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.
18 “Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

19 “Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you. (Deuteronomy 28:15-29)

The prophet Ezekiel (cf. Ezekiel 5) also reveals that because the modern descendants of the sons of Jacob refuse to repent, one third of the English speaking world will die in disease epidemics resulting from famine. The cities will be destroyed in war by an enemy yet to appear on the world scene, and with the destruction of our cities another one third of our people will perish.

In the old Radio Church of God, the late Garner Ted Armstrong wrote:

The Australian people have seen the way the United States has FAILED to stand up to the Communists in IndoChina, the Mideast, Hungary, and, in many instances, in acts of aggression against unarmed American airplanes or even civilian personnel. …

The United States … may become totally unable to protect Australia! While the United States and Great Britain are faced with the prophesied revival of the “beast,” … in Europe, forming the rebuilding of the ancient Roman Empire, Australia may well be taken over by an entirely different enemy! Australia, trying to populate and industrialize to stave off Communism, may become the SLAVES OF COMMUNISTS! (Armstrong GT. Populate or Perish! Plain Truth, January 1960)

The above is consistent with my views on that.

The old Worldwide Church, itself, taught that Ezekiel 5 and 6, as well as the latter portion of Hosea 5, applied to the English-dominated nations, specifying Australia, but also by implication, including New Zealand (Noller DK. Australia the Beautiful … Australia the Condemned! Plain Truth Magazine July-August 1983).

Notice some portions of those scriptures:

11 ‘Therefore, as I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘surely, because you have defiled My sanctuary with all your detestable things and with all your abominations, therefore I will also diminish you; My eye will not spare, nor will I have any pity. 12 One-third of you shall die of the pestilence, and be consumed with famine in your midst; and one-third shall fall by the sword all around you; and I will scatter another third to all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.

13 ‘Thus shall My anger be spent, and I will cause My fury to rest upon them, and I will be avenged; and they shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it in My zeal, when I have spent My fury upon them. 14 Moreover I will make you a waste and a reproach among the nations that are all around you, in the sight of all who pass by.

15 ‘So it shall be a reproach, a taunt, a lesson, and an astonishment to the nations that are all around you, when I execute judgments among you in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I, the Lord, have spoken. 16 When I send against them the terrible arrows of famine which shall be for destruction, which I will send to destroy you, I will increase the famine upon you and cut off your supply of bread. 17 So I will send against you famine and wild beasts, and they will bereave you. Pestilence and blood shall pass through you, and I will bring the sword against you. I, the Lord, have spoken.'” (Ezekiel 5:11-17)

1 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 2 “Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them, 3 and say, ‘O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, to the hills, to the ravines, and to the valleys: “Indeed I, even I, will bring a sword against you, and I will destroy your high places. 4 Then your altars shall be desolate, your incense altars shall be broken, and I will cast down your slain men before your idols. 5 And I will lay the corpses of the children of Israel before their idols, and I will scatter your bones all around your altars. 6 In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate, so that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, your idols may be broken and made to cease, your incense altars may be cut down, and your works may be abolished. 7 The slain shall fall in your midst, and you shall know that I am the Lord.

8 “Yet I will leave a remnant, so that you may have some who escape the sword among the nations, when you are scattered through the countries. 9 Then those of you who escape will remember Me among the nations where they are carried captive, because I was crushed by their adulterous heart which has departed from Me, and by their eyes which play the harlot after their idols; they will loathe themselves for the evils which they committed in all their abominations. 10 And they shall know that I am the Lord; I have not said in vain that I would bring this calamity upon them.” (Ezekiel 6:1-10)

14 For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me. (Hosea 5:14-15)

Those of Australia and New Zealand, as well as the whole world, will eventually know that the God of the Bible is real.

It will take the return of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, to be able to save the Australian and New Zealand people and their kindred worldwide from total annihilation (Hosea 13:9; Matthew 24:21-22). Jesus will return to earth as King of kings and establish God’s government over all nations.

David Robert’s The Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem (1850)

COGwriter

From sunset July 26th through sunset July 27th is the 9th of Av on the Hebrew calendar. Benjamin Netanyahu once made some statements:

On 9th of Av: Netanyahu calls on world to recall Zechariah 8:4

July 18, 2021

Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister of Israel and current head of the Likud-led opposition in the Knesset, posted a sentiment for Tisha B’Av on Facebook on Sunday night.

“Tonight we all commemorate the fast of Tisha B’Av. We remember the destruction of our temple and the tragedies that commanded our nation.”

Tisha B’Av (the ninth day of the Hebrew month of Av) is a fast day commemorating the destruction of both Jewish Temples in Jerusalem. Jews also refrain from wearing leather shoes and bathing. Jews also refrain from studying Torah, an act that brings great joy.

“In addition to mourning for the destruction, we will also remember the prophecy of the Zechariah that is taking place before our eyes in our generation.”

Netanyahu then quoted the Prophet Zechariah:

Thus said the lord of Hosts: There shall yet be old men and women in the squares of Yerushalayim, each with staff in hand because of their great age. And the squares of the city shall be crowded with boys and girls playing in the squares. Zechariah 8:4-5

According to Jewish tradition, Tisha B’av, the saddest day of the Jewish calendar and a fast day, will be transformed into a joyous feast day in the Messianic era.

Jewish tradition also teaches that the 12 spies were sent into Israel on the ninth of Av, an event that led to Israel wandering the desert for 40 years rather than immediately entering into the land of Israel. https://www.israel365news.com/195006/on-9th-of-av-netanyahu-calls-on-world-to-recall-zechariah-84/

Here is something else from the Temple Institute about the 9th of Av:

The month of Av bears the burden of the first nine days of Av, which are days of mourning and introspection, focusing on the Holy Temple, which was destroyed on the 9th day of Av, 1948 years ago, and has yet to be rebuilt. But following the 9th of Av, specifically on the 15th of Av, also known as Tu B’Av, the month of Av transforms into a month of increasing joy, as we begin the process of spiritual rejuvenation, which continues into the month of Elul, which, in turn, leads us to Rosh HaShana, and the joy-filled holidays that fill the month of Tishrei. (Temple Institute Facebook page, accessed 07/14/18)

Before going further, let me state that what Jews now call ‘Rosh HaShana‘ the Bible refers to it as follows:

23 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 24 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a sabbath-rest, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation.’ (Leviticus 23:23-24)

The related joy for Christians is to realize that Jesus will return on the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:52), the seventh one. The start of the blowing of the seven trumpets of Revelation 8:5-6 is expected to be on the first day of the seventh month, that Jews today commonly call Tishri.

Here is something more about the Jewish mourning day:

The Ninth of Av, the saddest day on the Jewish calendar, has transformed from a day focused on mourning and remembrance of the Jewish people’s’ greatest tragedies to one with an aspect of “tikkun,” or fixing society’s ills. One need only glance at the title of the blogs on The Times of Israel, or Jewish writing in any modern publication, to see how a concerted effort is underway to reverse the baseless hatred that the sages say led to the destruction of the Second Temple some 2,000 years ago. 1 August 2017, http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-a-sorry-state/

Here is more information about what the Jews are observing:

The Fast of the 9th of Av (Tisha B’Av), the day of mourning for the destruction of the First and Second Holy Temples in Jerusalem, begins on Saturday night this year at the end of the Sabbath and lasts until Sunday night.

Although this year the 9th falls on the Sabbath itself, Jewish law precludes mourning on the weekly day of rest and so the fast is moved forward, while the Sabbath is celebrated with customary joy until sunset, dusk serving as an intermediate period when it is forbidden to eat as well as evince signs of mourning. …

The Ninth of Av is a date marked by tragedy in Jewish history. On this day:

• The Jews in the desert wept in fear after hearing the report of the spies, and G-d decreed, as recounted in Numbers 13-14, that they would not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel until that entire generation had died out. Our sages say that G-d’s words were a prophecy: “You cried for nothing, and I will give you a reason to cry for generations to come.”
• Beitar, the last fortress to hold out during the Bar Kochba revolt in the year 135 C.E., fell to the Romans and over 100,000 Jews were slain.
• A year later, the Temple area was plowed over, marking the last milestone of national Jewish presence in the Promised Land until the modern era.
• The cruel expulsion of the Jews of Spain by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella in 1492 achieved its goal.
• World War I erupted in 1914, causing untold suffering to the Jews of Europe and Palestine and setting the stage for World War II and the Holocaust.
• Mass deportation of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto to the Treblinka death camp began, in 1942.
• There is a more recent tragedy. The Jews of Gush Katif spent their last legal day in their homes in Tisha B’Av of 2005, and were expelled three days later. The “Disengagement” the forced expulsion of more than 9,000 Jews from their homes in northern Samaria and the Jewish Gaza region, was carried out by a government, headed by then Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his deputy Ehud Olmert, who sent in soldiers and police, many of them dressed in black uniforms and riot gear, followed by bulldozers that destroyed the Jewish homes.

Twenty synagogues, however, were handed over to the Palestinian Authority (PA) and within minutes, went up in flames. …

How prophetic that the Talmudic Sages said that while the First Temple was destroyed due to the sins of idol worship, murder and immorality, the Second Temple fell due to the senseless hatred (sinat chinam) of one Jew for another.

And despite the 2000-year-old fast and palpable longing for the Temple to be rebuilt on Judaism’s holiest site on Mount Moriah, UNESCO and the EU are entertaining proposals to recognize it as a Muslim site, ignoring all of the above. …

Still, our Torah sages also teach that the Messiah will be born on Tisha B’Av and the saddest part of the regular daily prayers – tachanun – is not recited, in the anticipation of the final joyous Redemption that will render Tisha B’Av a day of joy. An old Jerusalem custom was to whitewash the walls of one’s home in the afternoon of the fast, in preparation for the Messiah’s expected arrival.

May we merit greeting the Messiah and be privileged to rebuild the Temple speedily in our time. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/216325

So, various Jews believe that the Messiah will be born on Tisha B’Av. And a few days before this they mourn the loss of their two temples. While the Messiah will not be born then, He may return around then or within months of it.

Av (or Ab) is the fifth month of the Hebrew calendar (to see the months for the entire year, check out the free online booklet Should You Observe God’s Holy Days or Demonic Holidays?).

So, many believe that the Jewish fast of this day is mentioned in the Bible in the following verse:

19 “Thus says the Lord of hosts:

‘The fast of the fourth month,
The fast of the fifth,
The fast of the seventh,
And the fast of the tenth,
Shall be joy and gladness and cheerful feasts
For the house of Judah.
Therefore love truth and peace.’ (Zechariah 8:19)

The Jewish Encyclopedia notes:

Besides the Day of Atonement, which is the only fast-day prescribed by the Mosaic law (Lev. xvi. 29; see Atonement, Day of), there were established after the Captivity four regular fast-days in commemoration of the various sad events that had befallen the nation during that period (Zech. viii. 19; comp. vii. 3-5). These were the fast of the fourth month (Tammuz), of the fifth month (Ab), of the seventh month (Tishri), and of the tenth month (Ṭebet). (Greenstone JH, Hirsch EG, Hirschfeld H. FASTING AND FAST-DAYS. The Jewish Encyclopedia of 1906. accessed 08/14/16)

AB, NINTH DAY OF:

The Fall of Jerusalem.

Day set aside by tradition for fasting and mourning, to commemorate the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Chaldeans (586 B.C.) and by the Romans (70); a movable fast falling approximately in the beginning of August of the Gregorian calendar. In II Kings, xxv. 8, 9 it is stated that the Temple was burned on the seventh day of the fifth month; in Jer. xxxix. 8 no exact date is given; while in Jer. lii. 12 the tenth day of the fifth month is assigned as the date. In connection with the fall of Jerusalem three other fast-days were established at the same time as the Ninth Day of Ab: these were the Tenth of Tebet, when the siege began; the Seventeenth of Tammuz, when the first breach was made in the wall; and the Third of Tishri, the day when Gedaliah was assassinated (II Kings, xxv. 25; Jer. xli. 2). From Zech. vii. 5, viii. 19 it appears that after the erection of the Second Temple the custom of keeping these fast-days was discontinued. Since the destruction of Jerusalem and of the Second Temple by the Romans, the four fast-days have again been observed. It has indeed been suggested that the sacredness of the day is due to its being the anniversary of the fall of Bethar at the end of the Bar Kokba war, thus making it a national rather than a religious ceremony.

Waning Significance.

In the long period which is reflected in Talmudic literature the observance of the Ninth Day of Ab assumed a character of constantly growing sadness and asceticism. Still it seems that, about the end of the second century or at the beginning of the third, the celebration of the day had lost much of its gloom. Judah ha-Nasi was in favor of abolishing it altogether or, according to another version, of lessening its severity when the feast has been postponed from Saturday to Sunday (Meg. 5b). A tendency to a less ascetic construction is also noticeable in the Talmudic explanation of Zech. viii. 19—namely, that the four fast-days would become feast-days during times of peace; on which Rashi remarks: “Peace means when the oppression of the Jews on account of their religion shall have ceased” (R. H. 18b). The growing strictness in the observance of mourning customs in connection with the Ninth Day of Ab is especially marked in post-Talmudic times, and particularly in the darkest period of Jewish life, from the fifteenth century to the eighteenth. ( Landsberg M, Kohler K. AB, NINETH DAY OF. The Jewish Encyclopedia of 1906. accessed 08/14/16)

We will see if this date may have future significance.

Jesus, referring to what is commonly considered as the ‘second temple,’ told His disciples around 30 A.D.:

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.

2 “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” (Matthew 24:1-2)

The first century Jewish historian Josephus wrote about this related to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple:

1 … But when Titus perceived that his endeavors to spare a foreign temple turned to the damage of his soldiers, and then be killed, he gave order to set the gates on fire. (Wars of the Jews, Book VI, Chapter 4, section 1)

1. NOW as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury, (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done,) Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind. (Josephus. Wars of the Jews, Book VII, Chapter 1, verse 1)

So, there was not one stone left upon the other for the Temple and the related buildings (more on the destruction of Jerusalem can be found in the article Why is a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem Not Required?

The second century Greek writer Pausanius wrote that:

the city of Jerusalem, a city which the Roman king destroyed to its foundations. (As cited in Murphy-O’Connor J. The Holy Land: An Oxford Archaeological Guide from Earliest Times to 1700. OUP Oxford, 2008, p. 159)

Notice something from what is likely an early third century writing:

But our Master did not prophesy after this fashion; but, as I have already said, being a prophet by an inborn and ever-flowing Spirit, and knowing all things at all times, He confidently set forth, plainly as I said before, sufferings, places, appointed times, manners, limits. Accordingly, therefore, prophesying concerning the temple, He said: ‘See ye these buildings? Verily I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another which shall not be taken away; and this generation shall not pass until the destruction begin. For they shall come, and shall sit here, and shall besiege it, and shall slay your children here.’ And in like manner He spoke in plain words the things that were straightway to happen, which we can now see with our eyes, in order that the accomplishment might be among those to whom the word was spoken. For the Prophet of truth utters the word of proof in order to the faith of His hearers. (Clementine Homilies. Book III, Chapter XV)

While the above has a generational issue, the fact is that this is another apparent eye witness that Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed as prophesied.

It may be of interest to note that although the second temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. not everything was obliterated.

Notice something from the Talmud about what happened to the Temple:

“Desolate lay Zion, in ruins moldered Jerusalem; the temple was but a heap of stones. Where once stood the sanctuary now grew weeds, and jackals howled in the Temple court where once David the Psalmist and his vast choir of Levites plucked the harp strings and raised their voices in songs of praise to the Eternal.” (Staiman M. Waiting for the Messiah: Stories to Inspire Jews with Hope. Jason Aronson, 1997, p. 29)

So, some Temple stones were left.

Some of its stones were seemingly used as the foundation stones as well as the original walls, of what seems to have been the first Christian church building:

The Judeo-Christians probably built their church, at that time called a synagogue, sometime in the decade after 73 A.D. For its construction, they could have used some of the magnificent ashlars from Herod’s destroyed citadel, not far away. Or perhaps they used the stones from the ruins of the Temple itself…with the intention of transferring some elements of the Holy Temple to a site becoming a new Mt. Zion (Zion III).

If that is so, the event may in fact be referred to in one of the apocryphal Odes of Solomon composed about 100 A.D. by a rival sectarian Judeo-Christian group. The fourth ode begins:

“No man can pervert your holy place, 0 God, nor can he change it, and put it in another place, because [he has] no power over it. Your sanctuary you designed before you made special places.” (Charlesworth, Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, p. 736.)

Was this passage in condemnation of the effort of the Judeo-Christians who built the synagogue on Mt. Zion to transfer some of the holiness of the destroyed Temple to their place of worship on the new Mt. Zion by constructing it in part with stones from that Temple?

From this time on, the western hill of Jerusalem was referred to by Christians as Mt. Zion (Zion III). Very few places in Jerusalem can point to such an enduring tradition as Zion’s claim to be the seat of the primitive church. No other place has raised a serious rival claim…

By this time the Judeo-Christian synagogue on Mt. Zion had become known as the Church of the Apostles. It became known as the Church of the Apostles not only because the apostles returned there after witnessing Christ’s post-resurrection ascent to heaven, but also because the building was built, as we have seen, under the leadership of Simon son of Kleophas. Kleophas was known as a brother of Joseph of Nazareth, therefore Simon was a cousin of Jesus. Simon was later considered one of the apostles, outside the circle of the 12. For this reason, the house of worship built by Simon could rightfully be called the Church of the Apostles.

(Pixner B. Church of the Apostles Found on Mt. Zion. Biblical Archaeology Review, May/June 1990: 16-35,60)

It may be that the above building will have a prophetic role. Details about that building, including some photographs my wife and I took related to it, are found in the article Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill.

In Daniel 9 we see that the Temple was prophesied to be destroyed:

25 “Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. (Daniel 9:25-26)

As it turns out, Jesus came when that prophecy in the Hebrew scriptures (the Old Testament) said the Prince Messiah would come.

Let’s look at an explanation from the old Radio Church of God about the Daniel 9 prophecy:

At the time of Jesus’ life on this earth, Herod — the king in Judea — the wise men from the nations to the east, and many of the priests, scribes, and elders, as well as the common people, realized that the seventy weeks prophecy of Daniel 9 was nearing its completion. The Messiah, the Prince, was eagerly looked forward to, to free them from the yoke of Roman oppression. The Messiah was expected because of an understanding of this prophecy. But He was misunderstood when He appeared in the fulfillment of this prophecy, because they refused to recognize the first portion of the prophecy and hung their hope only on the last portion. …

Here, very plainly, is listed the exact time at which the prophesied Messiah would appear to begin to do the work mentioned in verse 24. The command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. Much of the book of Ezra and the entire book of Nehemiah cover this particular event. Seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks equal sixty-nine weeks. So the prophecies show that from the going forth of the command to rebuild Jerusalem in 457 B. C. it would be 483 years until the appearance of the prophesied Messiah to begin fulfilling the works of verse 24. (Hill DJ. HERE’S WHY Jews Reject Jesus and Christians Reject Christ! Plain Truth, April 1962)

Adding 483 to the year 457 B.C. brings the year 27 A.D. (there was no year “zero” between B.C. and A.D.). That brings us to the time that Jesus began His ministry (apparently in the Fall of the year). His ministry is believed to have lasted 3 ½ years, hence the veil would have been torn in the Spring of 31 A.D.

Now in the Talmud (Shabbat 119b), rabbis gave reasons for the destruction of the Temple, such as Jewish disobedience related to the Sabbath, drinking parties, not properly teaching their children, lack of trustworthy Jews, and Jews disparaging Torah scholars—they did not tie it in with Daniel 9. They quoted scriptures including Jeremiah 5:1, 6:11,15, 17:27; Ezekiel 22:26; Isaiah 5:11-13; 1 Chronicles 16:22; and 2 Chronicles 36:16.

Let’s look at part of the Talmud that discusses some of this:

Rabbi Yehuda said: Jerusalem was destroyed only because they disparaged the Torah scholars in it, as it is stated: “And they mocked the messengers of God and disdained His words and taunted His prophets, until the wrath of God arose against His people, until it could not be healed” (II Chronicles 36:16). What is the meaning of: Until it could not be healed? Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: It means that anyone who disparages Torah scholars cannot be healed from his wound.

Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: What is the meaning of that which is written: “Do not touch My anointed ones and do My prophets no harm” (I Chronicles 16:22)? “Do not touch My anointed ones,” these are the schoolchildren, who are as precious and important as kings and priests (Maharsha); “and do not harm My prophets,” these are Torah scholars. (Shabbat 119b, vs. 9-10)

Despite the rabbinical interpretation, the Old Testament did NOT say this destruction would come related to the rejection of Jewish “Torah scholars.” The type of Torah scholars the Talmud referred to were not directly sent by God nor were they prophets. If those cited in the Talmud would have been more accepting of the literal meaning of the Hebrew scriptures, they easily could have seen this.

Understand that the New Testament does show that the Jews did taunt God’s anointed prophets like John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul. Early Jewish writings show that they also taunted those the Jews called Minim (Minim were Jews that rejected aspects of Judaism, like accepting Jesus). Hence, Talmudic scholars should have had a clue that the Jewish rejection of Jesus and others was part of the reason for the destruction of the Temple (which also, after the sacrifice of Jesus, was essentially obsolete for the need of animal sacrifices during the church age per Hebrews 9 & 10).

The Jews should have accepted Jesus, but as prophesied in the Bible, most rejected Him:

³ He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. (Isaiah 53:3)

²¹ The governor answered and said to them, “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” They said, “Barabbas!” ²² Pilate said to them, “What then shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” They all said to him, “Let Him be crucified!” ²³ Then the governor said, “Why, what evil has He done?” But they cried out all the more, saying, “Let Him be crucified!” (Matthew 27:21-23)

The Jews expected Jesus to come as a king. But on His first coming He came as a Prince.

Some may think that the Temple perhaps would have gotten destroyed upon Jesus’ death–but the prophecy in Daniel 9 does not so state.

However, if we look at the account in Matthew’s Gospel, we see some unusual events took place when Jesus died:

⁵⁰ And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

⁵¹ Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, ⁵² and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; ⁵³ and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

⁵⁴ So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:50-54)

It appears that the quake caused the ripping or tearing of the great curtain at the Temple entrance (“the veil of the temple”) in two from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45).

It has been reported from Christian sources that there was a sizeable stone lintel supporting the curtain which apparently tumbled to the floor below. The collapse of the lintel would have ripped the curtain in two and exposed the large doors sealing the Temple’s inner chamber. The episode resulted in the doors opening on their own accord, and likely exposing the Temple interior, the Holy of Holies chamber itself.

Moreover, it seems that the Chamber or Hall of the Hewn Stones (הגזית לשכת Lishkat ha-Gazit) built into the north wall of the Temple collapsed. The Sanhedrin met in this chamber when functioning as a court, but it suffered such structural damage then that the Sanhedrin had to abandon it.

That Christian explanation is consistent with the following that is in the Talmud:

The Gemara continues its question: And it is taught in a baraita: Forty years before the destruction of the Second Temple, the Sanhedrin was exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stone and sat in the store near the Temple Mount. (Tractate Sanhedrin 41a, v.25)

Forty years before the Temple was destroyed, the Sanhedrin was exiled from the Chamber of Hewn Stones and sat in the stores on the Temple Mount. (Shabbat 15a, v. 9)

Whether 40 years is precise or approximate is not absolutely specified in the Talmud—but if we work back from 70 A.D. that supports either a 30 or 31 A.D. impalement of Jesus (it points to 31 A.D. if an inclusive “beginning with” counting method was used as in Leviticus 23:15-16).

That Temple’s elimination was also consistent with the following prophecy:

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

This sounds like God had a transitioning period while He still accepted Jews religious first covenant practices until more of them had enough time to accept Jesus.

Plus, even the Apostles still went to the Temple after Jesus was resurrected.

But God did have the Temple itself “vanish” away, which should have left no doubt that the first covenant was obsolete.

Now the Jews fast. Yet consider the following:

1 “Cry aloud, spare not; Lift up your voice like a trumpet; Tell My people their transgression,And the house of Jacob their sins. 2 Yet they seek Me daily, And delight to know My ways, As a nation that did righteousness, And did not forsake the ordinance of their God. They ask of Me the ordinances of justice; They take delight in approaching God. 3 ‘Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and You have not seen? Why have we afflicted our souls, and You take no notice?’

“In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure, And exploit all your laborers. 4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate,And to strike with the fist of wickedness. You will not fast as you do this day, To make your voice heard on high. 5 Is it a fast that I have chosen, A day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush, And to spread out sackcloth and ashes? Would you call this a fast,And an acceptable day to the Lord?

6 “Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free,And that you break every yoke? 7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh? 8 Then your light shall break forth like the morning, Your healing shall spring forth speedily, And your righteousness shall go before you; The glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard. 9 Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’

“If you take away the yoke from your midst, The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, 10 If you extend your soul to the hungry And satisfy the afflicted soul, Then your light shall dawn in the darkness, And your darkness shall be as the noonday. 11 The Lord will guide you continually, And satisfy your soul in drought, And strengthen your bones; You shall be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. (Isaiah 58:1-11)

On this day, the Jews should consider that the Temple destruction was tied in with the coming of the Prince Messiah. They should not just fast, but repent and accept Jesus.

When they do not do that, it is mainly just a day of mourning.

Instead it should be a day that points to repentance and accepting Jesus.

The destruction of the Temple shows that Bible prophecies do come to pass and that Jesus is the Messiah.

We now have the following video on our Bible News Prophecy YouTube channel:

26:15

Jerusalem Temple Destruction and the Messiah

Was there any connection between prophesies of the Messiah and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D? On the 9th day of the fifth month on the Hebrew calendar, Jews fast because of the destruction of that Temple and other events that have befell the Jews. Did you know that the Jews tie the birth of the Messiah in with the month of Av? They also tie positive events from then to ‘Rosh Hoshana’ in the month of Tishri. Is there any relationship to Jesus and the first feast in Tishri? Did Jesus’ prophesies related to the Temple come to pass? What do Jewish and non-Jewish sources report about what happened to Jerusalem and the Temple? Did Jesus come when the Messiah was prophesied to start His ministry in Daniel 9? What happened when Jesus was killed? Was there a time of transition until the Temple was to be destroyed on August 30, 70 A.D.? What should Jews and others do related to the Messiah and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem? What seems to have happened to some of the ashlar stones that were part of that Temple? Dr. Thiel addresses these issues and more.

Here is a link to our video: Jerusalem Temple Destruction and the Messiah.

As far as Jews and others accepting Jesus as the Messiah goes, there is additional information and proof as why all should in our free online book: Proof Jesus is the Messiah.

Some items of possibly related interest may include:

Is God Calling You? This booklet discusses topics including calling, election, and selection. If God is calling you, how will you respond? Here is are links to related sermons: Christian Election: Is God Calling YOU? and Predestination and Your Selection. A short animation is also available: Is God Calling You?
Proof Jesus is the Messiah This free book has over 200 Hebrew prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus. Plus, His arrival was consistent with specific prophecies and even Jewish interpretations of prophecy. Here are links to seven related sermons: Proof Jesus is the Messiah, Prophecies of Jesus’ birth, timing, and death, Jesus’ prophesied divinity, 200+ OT prophecies Jesus filled; Plus prophecies He made, Why Don’t Jews Accept Jesus?, Daniel 9, Jews, and Jesus, and Facts and Atheists’ Delusions About Jesus. Plus the links to two sermonettes: Luke’s census: Any historical evidence? and Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah, but … These videos cover nearly all of the book, plus have some information not in the book.
Christian Repentance Do you know what repentance is? Is it really necessary for salvation? Two related sermons about this are also available: Real Repentance and Real Christian Repentance.
Why is a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem Not Required? Although people like Timothy LaHaye teach a third Jewish temple is required, who is ‘the temple of God” in the New Testament? Does the Bible require a rebuilt Jewish Temple? Here is a related item in the Spanish language ¿Por qué no se requiere un templo judío en Jerusalén? Here is a link to a sermon titled The Temple, Prophecy, and the Work.Nascent Sanhedrin and Prophecy The reconstituted Sanhedrin wants the reimplementation of animal sacrifices. A related video is titled Sanhedrin pushing animal sacrifices. And a newer one is: Sanhedrin makes burnt offering to dedicate altar!
The Red Heifer, Jewish Beliefs, and the End of the World The Temple Institute is watching a ‘red heifer.’ Why might this be important in the sequence of end time events? Here is a related link in the Spanish language Novilla roja descubierta en EE.UU. e Instituto del Templo está interesado en ella. Here are links to three related videos in English: Red Heifers and the Fate of the World and The Red Heifer and the End of the World and 5 Red Heifers and Year 5783?
Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill Could this building, often referred to as the Cenacle, which is located on a Mount Zion, possibly have been the oldest actual Christian church building?
Does the ‘Cenacle’ deal have prophetic ramifications? After a 20 year negotiation, the Church of Rome has negotiated the right to have Catholic mass in the building known as the Cenacle. It is in the area where the Church of God on Jerusalem’s Western Hill once stood. This is believed to be the location of the earliest Christian church building. How does the Bible define the ‘temple of God’ in the New Testament? Could this be the area where the ‘man of sin’ will sit in the “temple of God’ that Bible prophecy discusses in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4? This is a YouTube video.
The ‘Peace Deal’ of Daniel 9:27 This prophecy could give up to 3 1/2 years advance notice of the coming Great Tribulation. Will most ignore or misunderstand its fulfillment? Here is a link to a related sermon video Daniel 9:27 and the Start of the Great Tribulation.
Jerusalem: Past, Present, and Future What does the Bible say about Jerusalem and its future? Is Jerusalem going to be divided and eliminated? Is Jesus returning to the area of Jerusalem? There is also a related YouTube video you can watch titled Jerusalem To be divided and eliminated.
Who is the Man of Sin of 2 Thessalonians 2? Is this the King of the North, the ten-horned beast of Revelation 13:1-11, or the two-horned Beast of Revelation 13:12-16? Some rely on traditions, but what does the Bible teach? Here is a related link in Spanish/español: ¿Quién es el Hombre de Pecado de 2 Tesalonicenses 2?; here is a link to a video in Spanish: ¿Quién es el ‘hombre de pecado’? Here is a version in Mandarin: N;ÿ Œ
f/’Y’jNº’ÿ Here is a link to a related English sermon video titled: The Man of Sin will deceive most ‘Christians’.
Continuing Church of God The group striving to be most faithful amongst all real Christian groups to the word of God.
Anglo – America in Prophecy & the Lost Tribes of Israel Are the Americans, Canadians, English, Scottish, Welsh, Australians, Anglo (non-Dutch) Southern Africans, and New Zealanders descendants of Joseph? Where are the lost ten-tribes of Israel? Who are the lost tribes of Israel? What will happen to Jerusalem and the Jews in Israel? Will God punish the U.S.A., Canada, United Kingdom, and other Anglo nations? Why might God allow them to be punished first? Here is a link to the Spanish version of this article: Anglo-América & las Tribus Perdidas de Israel.

“Elijah in the wilderness“

COGwriter

According to an article about him in The Catholic Encyclopedia, Elijah “is honoured by both the Greek and Latin Churches on 20 July.” Although many Roman Catholics (and others) believe that Elijah (or a type of Elijah) will be one of the two witnesses, The Catholic Encyclopedia article about him never mentions that role related to him.

The Bible itself tells about the original Elijah in the books of 1 Kings, 2 Kings, and 2 Chronicles. In his first mention, God has him called for a drought:

1 And Elijah the Tishbite, of the inhabitants of Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord God of Israel lives, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, except at my word.” (1 Kings 17:1)

Immediately after this, God had him flee, essentially to the wilderness (1 Kings 17:3; 1 Kings 17:8-10; cf.1 Kings 18:7-14; 1 Kings 19:2-4,15), and Elijah was sometimes a voice in the wilderness.

Elijah also sometimes seemed to stand alone for God:

21 And Elijah came to all the people, and said, “How long will you falter between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” But the people answered him not a word. 22 Then Elijah said to the people, “I alone am left a prophet of the Lord…” (1 Kings 18:21-22)

As far as faltering between two opinions, in the COGs most hold to one or more improper prophetic opinions that differ from that of the Continuing Church of God. A list of these can be found in the article The Laodicean Church Era. Because of this, unless they change, those who will not pay attention to the Continuing Church of God will not know when the Great Tribulation will begin until it is too late to flee (cf. Matthew 24:15-20; Revelation 12:14-17). The Apostle John recorded that there would be two groups at the end and that one would flee and be protected from the Great Tribulation (Revelation 12:14-16), while the other would not be (Revelation 12:17).

Getting back to the original Elijah, when he was the top ecclesiastical authority, Elijah did a variety of miracles, such as stopping rain (1 Kings 17:1), multiplying flour and oil (1 Kings 17:13-16), getting a dry passage over a river, (2 Kings 2:7-8), and calling fire down from heaven (2 Kings 1:10-12).

Elijah, however, over time seemed to have lost the mental/emotional ability to properly lead (cf. 1 Kings 19:13-18). God later took him and replaced him with Elisha as the top ecclesiastical authority. Elisha then received a “double-portion” (two-portion literally) of the gift that God had given Elijah:

9 And so it was, when they had crossed over, that Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask! What may I do for you, before I am taken away from you?”

Elisha said, “Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.”

10 So he said, “You have asked a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not, it shall not be so.” 11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried out, “My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen!” So he saw him no more. And he took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces. 13 He also took up the mantle of Elijah that had fallen from him, and went back and stood by the bank of the Jordan. (2 Kings 2:9-13)

The recipient of the double-portion promise, Elisha, was a type of Elijah. Elisha picked up the mantle of Elijah (2 Kings 2:13) which God wanted him to have (1 Kings 19:16-19), did a similar miraculous dry river crossing (2 Kings 2:13-14), also did other miracles (2 Kings 4:30-35; 2 Kings 10:5-14; 2 Kings 6:16-18), as he replaced Elijah as God’s top ecclesiastical authority on earth (cf. 1 Kings 19:16).

A minister of the Living Church of God prayed and anointed Bob Thiel for a ‘double portion’ of God’s Spirit back in late 2011 and told him that was reminiscent of what happened to Elisha. He also confirmed that God answered that prayer when we met in November 2019.

Interestingly, for several years after Elisha picked up the mantle that Elijah dropped, Elijah was still alive. While many outside of the Church of God seem to doubt this, the following passage confirms that Elijah was still alive later, even though the main work/mantle had shifted to Elisha:

5 Jehoram was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem…

12 And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet, saying,

Thus says the Lord God of your father David:

Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, or in the ways of Asa king of Judah, 13 but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and have made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to play the harlot like the harlotry of the house of Ahab, and also have killed your brothers, those of your father’s household, who were better than yourself, 14 behold, the Lord will strike your people with a serious affliction — your children, your wives, and all your possessions; 15 and you will become very sick with a disease of your intestines, until your intestines come out by reason of the sickness, day by day. (2 Chronicles 21:5, 12-15)

The Bible, however, teaches that a voice from the wilderness would come again:

3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God. (Isaiah 40:3)

John the Baptist said that he was fulfilling this (though he did not indicate he would be the only one to do so):

19 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”…

23 He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness:’ Make straight the way of the Lord,”‘ as the prophet Isaiah said.” (John 1:19,23)

Note: In Greek the word “The” above is not present.

Jesus, Himself, confirmed that John the Baptist, who is not recorded to have done any of the miracles of Elijah, fulfilled an Elijah role:

12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist. (Matthew 17:12-13)

So, the Bible tells of two Elijahs who were here thousands of years ago.

But Jesus told of another Elijah to come after He left:

11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things.” (Matthew 17:11)

That particular Elijah was also prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures (the Old Testament). Here are Protestant, “literal,” and Catholic (note: Catholics often use the Latinized form of Elijah, called Elias below) translations:

4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the statutes and rules that I commanded him at Horeb for all Israel. 5 “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 6 And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction.” (Malachi 4:4-6, ESV)

4 Remember ye the law of Moses My servant, That I did command him in Horeb, For all Israel — statutes and judgments. 5 Lo, I am sending to you Elijah the prophet, Before the coming of the day of Jehovah, The great and the fearful. 6 And he hath turned back the heart of fathers to sons, And the heart of sons to their fathers, Before I come and have utterly smitten the land! (Malachi 4:4-6, YLT)

4 Remember the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, the precepts, and judgments. 5 Behold I will send you Elias the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers: lest I come, and strike the earth with anathema. (Malachi 4:4-6, Douay-Rheims).

Notice that the various translations teach that Elijah is to be on the scene before the Day of the Lord. An event that is at least over six years from now.

Various early professors of Christ believed that an Elijah (though Hippolytus in the third century felt it was literally the original Elijah) would be coming again:

The climax of Elijah’s activity is his appearance shortly before the Messianic time. “He is appointed to lead aright the coming ages, to restore the tribes of Jacob,” says Ben Sira of him (Ecclus. [Sirach] xlviii. 10, 11). In the second half of the first Christian century it was expected that Elijah would appear shortly before the coming of the Messiah, to restore to families the purity…(‘Eduy. viii. 7…) (Elijah. Jewish Encyclopedia of 1906)

43…For he says, And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst (half) of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease. By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1, 260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations.46…He says by Malachi and the angel, I will send to you Elias the Tishbite before the day of the Lord, the great and notable day, comes; and he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, lest I come and smite the earth utterly. These, then, shall come and proclaim the manifestation of Christ that is to be from heaven; and they shall also perform signs and wonders, in order that men may be put to shame and turned to repentance for their surpassing wickedness and impiety. 47. For John says, And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. That is the half of the week whereof Daniel spoke. (Hipploytus. On Christ and Antichrist).

The Church of God position has been that someone would come in the spirit and power of Elijah to “restore all things” and possibly be one of the two witnesses. While the late Herbert W. Armstrong (died in January 1986) sometimes indicated that he fulfilled that role he told people, that I have personally spoken with, that there could be another other than he. Those with a WCG background might find the following quote from Herbert W. Armstrong of some assistance here as he wrote:

Those called into the Church were called not merely for salvation and eternal life, but to learn the way of God’s government and develop the divine character during this mortal life in the Church age…

Also Malachi 4:5-6 pictures the Elijah to come at the very end of the Church age (Mystery of the Ages. 1985, pp. 201, 349).

And when was the “Church age” supposed to end according to Herbert Armstrong’s old church? Notice:

God has set before us an open door and no MAN can shut it. God can shut it, and He will when the work is finished and the Philadelphia Church goes to a place of safety. …The Laodicean Church is not going to be worthy to escape to a place of safety. When it is too late, they will find that the Church of Philadelphia has gone to safety (What Is the “LAODICEAN CHURCH”? Good News August 1959 Vol. VIII, Number 8).

Now since the Church age has not ended, and the Day of the Lord has not yet come, then it follows that Elijah was to come on the scene publicly after this was written. His restoring of “all things” means that he is to be restoring information that the true Church of God once understood, but later must have lost or misunderstood (see also LCG on Prophets: Rare, But Look for the Fruits and Is there a need for a prophet now?).

Now, I should add that RCG’s David Pack is NOT the prophesied end-time Elijah despite his claims about it–he has NOT restored the truth and is confused/wrong on many points.

Those of the true and genuine Philadelphian remnant will pay much attention to the voice of the true final Elijah. Those who do not will not fare as well as they could (cf. Revelation 12:14-17).

We in the Continuing Church of God have also a more sure word of prophecy; “whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts” (2 Peter 1:19, KJV).”

Some items of possibly related interest may include:

The Elijah Heresies Does the Bible teach that there will be a future Elijah? Must it be Herbert W. Armstrong? Three related sermons are available Elijah: Prophecies and Heresies, Elijah, Herbert W. Armstrong, and CCOG, and 21st Century Elijah.
Continuing Church of God, Elijah, and Restoring All Things Have all things been restored? Is there restoration going on? Is there supposed to be a 21st century Elijah? Here is are links to two related sermons: 21st Century Elijah and CCOG: Restoring All Things. Here is a link to a related sermon in the Spanish language: La restauracion de todas las cosas.
Herbert W. Armstrong, the Philadelphia Church, & the Mantle Herbert Armstrong claims God had him raise the Philadelphia up. Are there reasons to believe that the Philadelphia mantle in now within the CCOG? Here is a link to a related sermon: Herbert W. Armstrong and the Philadelphia Mantle.
Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18? Does any church have the confirmed dream and prophetic signs of Acts 2:17-18? Should one? Here is a link in the Spanish language: ¿Tiene la CCOG confirmadas las señales de Hechos 2: 17-18? Here is a link in the French language: Est-ce que l’Église Continue de Dieu confirme les signes d’Actes 2:17-18? A related sermon in the English language is also available: 17 Last Days’ Signs of the Holy Spirit.
Church of God Leaders on Prophets Have there been prophets throughout the church age? Are any supposed to be around in the last days? What have COG leaders stated or written about prophets? Here is a link to a related sermon: Church of God Leaders on Prophets.
How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God There are many false prophets. How can Christians determine who is a true prophet? There is also a sermon-length video titled How to determine if someone is a true prophet of God. Here is a related link in Spanish/español: ¿Cómo determinar si alguien es un verdadero profeta de Dios?
Who Are The Two Witnesses? What is their job? What does the Bible reveal? What has the Church of God taught on this subject? Might even Roman Catholic prophecies give some clues here? A related sermon is available: Prophecy and the Two Witnesses. Here is a related link in Spanish/español:¿Quiénes son los dos testigos?
There is a Place of Safety for the Philadelphians. Why it May Be Petra This article discusses a biblical ‘place of safety’ and includes quotes from the Bible and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject–thus, there is a biblically supported alternative to the rapture theory. There is also a video on the subject: Might Petra be the Place of Safety? Here is something related in the Spanish language: Hay un lugar de seguridad para los Filadelfinos. ¿Puede ser Petra?
There is a Place of Safety for the Philadelphians. Why it May Be Petra This article discusses a biblical ‘place of safety’ and includes quotes from the Bible and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject–thus, there is a biblically supported alternative to the rapture theory.
The Philadelphia Church Era was predominant circa 1933 A.D. to 1986 A.D. The old Radio Church of God and old Worldwide Church of God, now the remnant of that era is basically the most faithful in the Church of God, like who hold to the beliefs and practices of the Continuing Church of God.
The Laodicean Church Era has been predominant circa 1986 A.D. to present. The Laodiceans are non-Philadelphians who mainly descended from the old WCG or its offshoots.  They do not properly understand the work or biblical prophecies and will face the Great Tribulation if they do not repent. One video of related interest is 50+ Laodicean Prophetic Errors. See also Do You Hold to Any of These Laodicean Prophetic Errors?

3rd Century portrayal of Samuel anointing David
(public domain photo from Yale University)

COGwriter

We put together the following video on our Bible News Prophecy YouTube channel, the audio portion of which was sent also for broadcast on WRMI shortwave at 5850 kHz at 0130 UTC Monday (which is 8:30 pm Eastern Standard Time on Sunday), Wilkins Radio Network yesterday (12 stations), and for the European Gospel Radio station AM 1323 kHz Wednesday  21:30-21:45 CET (European Central Time):/: We just uploaded a new related video:

(Logo of Hebrew University of Jerusalem)         .

COGwriter

The Bible teaches:

13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. (1 Samuel 16:13)

10 Then David arose and fled that day from before Saul, and went to Achish the king of Gath. 11 And the servants of Achish said to him, “Is this not David the king of the land? Did they not sing of him to one another in dances, saying:

‘Saul has slain his thousands,
And David his ten thousands’?” (1 Samuel 21:10-11)

Many these days doubt that David even existed.

But there is evidence outside of scripture.

A reader sent me a link to the following:

CP U.S. | FRIDAY, JUNE 30, 2023

Archaeologist’s research appears to support Bible’s claims about King David’s kingdom

While some scholars have argued that the Bible’s description of King David ruling over a great kingdom is exaggerated, new research suggests that the land overseen by the Old Testament king was more well-developed than some experts believe.

Prof. Yosef Garfinkel of the Institute of Archaeology at Hebrew University theorized in a paper published in the peer-reviewed Jerusalem Journal of Archaeology that King David ruled over an urban network of fortified cities, which supports the Bible’s description of his kingdom.Garfinkel outlined five different sites in his study — Khirbet Qeiyafa, Beth Shemesh, Lachish and Tell en-Naṣbeh and a country hill — finding that these locations had a fairly similar layout.Three of the sites had what’s known as a casemate wall, a double wall that typically protects a city or fortress. Some sites also contained Canaanite inscriptions, which the study suggested showed an “increasing demand for communication and a marker of centralized authority.” hare prayer topics and pray for one another. We are better together! Visit NowAs The Times of Israel reported Monday, those who believe King David ruled over a few thousand Bedouin shepherds near Jerusalem fall into the “minimalist school” of archeological thought. The other school of thought aligns with the Bible’s description of King David ruling a vast kingdom.While Garfinkel’s paper appears to support the Bible’s account of King David’s kingdom, the professor said proving the Bible’s accuracy was not the purpose of the study. The scholar acknowledged that there are differing opinions on the usefulness of the Bible, but he argued, “that’s not science; that’s theology.”“I hate to use the term ‘trying to prove the Bible’ because I’m not trying to prove anything,” Garfinkel told the outlet. New research sparks debate on King David’s kingdom | U.S. News (christianpost.com)

LGBTQ+ ‘Pride Flag’

COGwriter

Notice the following:

COGwriter

2023 has been a difficult financial year for many around the world. Food and gas prices again have been rising. Some are warning about recession (see ‘Recession Watch: It’s the ‘70s Again … or Worse’  ) and some about stagflation (see ‘Powell tells Congress that Fed will raise rates this month’ ‘Central banks feared inflation but now confront spectre of stagflation’).

The stock markets around the world are jittery. Many around the world are concerned about international matters, including what will happen with the USA because of its leaders and even the 2024 elections.

The USA has the most debt any nation in world history has ever had–and it keeps going up. The per-capita debt of those in the UK are among the highest of all time. The Eurozone has struggles between members, plus its own debt issues.

Those in Asia and South America have seen their economic standards of living generally rise over the past decades, but great apprehension exists. There have been gains and losses in some parts of Africa and the Middle East.

Instead of focusing on national and international finance (which I tend to post about a lot), this post will mainly consist of quotes from the late Herbert W. Armstrong about personal finance from a biblical perspective. Anyway, here is some of what he wrote:

Ending Your
FINANCIAL WORRIES

by Herbert W. Armstrong
©Copyright 1959

What are YOU most concerned about? Is it the threat of hydrogen bomb WAR that can blast all human life from off this planet? Is it the race to conquer SPACE? MOST are concerned not about these issues but about making ends meet. THINK OF IT! In the industrial nations about 25% of parents are “farming out” their children so that both parents can work! WHY are most families experiencing such desperate financial worry? WHY such worry and striving over MAKING ENDS MEET?

FINANCIAL worries Seem to plague us all! IT JUST DOESN’T MAKE SENSE!

When you stop to think about it, never in the history of this world were any nations so rich as the English-speaking and the western European nations today! Our peoples possess more developed resources and national wealth than any people ever had before.

Yet nearly every one of us is engaged in a constant STRUGGLE to make ends meet. Financial worries seem constantly to bear us down — rob us of real happiness and joy! WHY SHOULD THIS BE?

There is a reason! You CAN BE FREE from financial worry!

What Most People Don’t Know

There is something you probably don’t know about your income. If there is anything people are jealous of, it is the money they earn. They usually work hard for it. And they want full freedom in deciding for themselves what they do with it.

People say: “What I earn is MINE — I can do what I please with it!”

But is the money you earn really your own? Don’t be too sure. Notice these FACTS about your income you probably haven’t known!

What you earn is not yours!

The man who says, “What I do with the money I earn with my own labor is nobody’s business — I produced it — it belongs to me,” is mistaken.

What you earn, by work performed or investments made is not yours — not any of it — that is, not UNTIL …!

And here is what most people don’t know about their income!

There are two prior claims on your income. One, of course, is taxes.

Human governments, by virtue of MAN-made laws, are able forcibly to extract from your incomes not one tenth, but an average of over ONE QUARTER, a vast amount of which is mis-spent. Jesus said we are to pay taxes — render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s — be subject to the powers that be. Governments, therefore, have exercised a PRIOR right to one quarter of your income — and in the case of salary or wages, governments take it out BEFORE YOU get your pay.

But the first claim is GOD’S claim. You probably never realized this fact before — but it is a fact. God Almighty the living CREATOR-RULER of the universe claims it all — every dollar — every pound — every franc — every mark. Your Maker who gives you the very air you breathe tells you it all belongs to Him, not to you!

But didn’t you earn it? Didn’t YOU produce it?

Not exactly! Everything produced — money, and all that money can buy — comes out of the earth. You didn’t produce that! God created that. You merely applied certain energy in physical action and in thinking to what God had created and owned. And God created even that energy you expended — He created your thinking processes. He not only created, originally, but He sustains what He created, including all force and energy.

So, after all, it was GOD’S LABOR of creating and sustaining that really produced all. God’s claim to its ownership of all you have THOUGHT YOU produced is valid. It is prior to yours.

God Almighty says, in His written Word: “The earth is the Eternal’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. For He hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods” (Psalm 24:1-2). These inspired words are repeated in I Corinthians 10:26.

“Whatsoever is under the whole heaven is MINE,” claims God (Job 41:11).

“Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the ETERNAL’S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is” (Deut. 10:14). “All the earth is MINE” (Ex. 19:5).

“If I were hungry,” says God (Psalm 50:12), “I would not tell thee; for the world is MINE, and the fulness thereof.” “For every beast of the forest is MINE, and the cattle upon a thousand hills” (verse 10).

Yes, even the money — even the gold and silver: “The silver is MINE, and the gold is MINE, saith the ETERNAL of hosts” (Hag. 2:8).

DARE any man deny this claim of God? These same words of God are the words by which every man shall be JUDGED at the last. If any man deny God’s claim, the decision will be rendered against him, in the judgment! God’s claim stands! Admit, then, your income BELONGS TO GOD! It’s HIS to do with as HE wills.

How God’s Law Regulates It

However, God is a God of love. He knows your need. God is concerned about you. He is not selfish. He has your interest and welfare in mind. Therefore God has made A LAW respecting that portion of HIS WEALTH which your thinking, and your labor has extracted and worked upon.

Get this fixed thoroughly in your mind. Your wages, your salary, your profit, your income BELONGS TO GOD, not to you. Probably you never realized this before. This may seem like a new idea to you. But it is not an idea — it is a fact.

GOD IS THE OWNER OF WHAT YOU WORK ON AND HAVE A PART IN PRODUCING. You could produce nothing apart from God’s matter which He created — apart from the use of laws of force and energy which God set in motion and sustains.

Therefore GOD HAS A RIGHT to take, or dispose of what you regard as your income AS HE WILLS. He OWNS it. It is not yours, it is HIS!

So God, the rightful OWNER of your income, has MADE A LAW respecting its disposal and its use. By virtue of being Creator and Sustainer of the earth and all in it, God is supreme RULER and LAWGIVER.

God’s LAW respecting what you earn is in fact a DEAL He has made with you. He allows you to work on HIS EARTH, to use a part of the earth or what is in it or on it, and of its forces and energies, and to extract from it food, materials, supplies, metals, wood, oils, coal, or whatever — or to work on or with that which others have extracted from the earth, in manufacturing, distributing, selling, buying, investing — whatever may be your occupation or job or profession — and so, whether you have realized it or not YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING IN PARTNERSHIP WITH GOD.

The farmer or gardener may plant seed, plow, and expend his labor in raising food. But WHO supplied the SOIL? WHO created the living process that makes the seed sprout and grow? Who sends the rain, or provides water for irrigation? Who set the sun in the sky and causes it to shine and warm the earth? Who causes the plant to drink out of the soil the minerals, vitamins, and good elements, and to grow into the vegetable, the grain, or the fruit? Did YOU perform this part of the business of raising the food you eat?

When we sit down and really THINK, we shall see that God supplies about NINE parts of everything man makes or produces, and man’s thinking, planning, and working supplies only about ONE part. But God does not take nine tenths of the proceeds, or the income. He doesn’t take even eight tenths, or seven, or even three or two tenths. God is GENEROUS. God has reserved for HIS use only one little tiny tenth of what is produced out of His earth through His forces and energies!

God takes only ONE tenth. And after you have been honest in PAYING God’s tenth to God’s chosen representative, then — AND NOT UNTIL THEN — God has decreed that the other NINE tenths becomes legally YOURS!

THAT’S GOD’S LAW! Not a penny of what you earn, or a penny’s worth of the value of what you produce, is YOURS — it ALL belongs to God to do with as HE directs. But God has legally directed that after you have honestly paid Him the one little, small tenth He requires for His use, then the other NINE tenths He gives to YOU. Then, and not until then, you can rightfully claim OWNERSHIP over that nine tenths. Then and thereafter it is YOURS to do with as YOU decide.

When we get our thinking straight — when we get UNDERSTANDING — when we stop to realize HOW MUCH of what we have was provided by GOD — then we realize how LOVING, how GENEROUS, how solicitous for our welfare God is.

How to HAVE MORE

But that’s only part of the story.

What does God want with that first TENTH? How does He use it? He requires that small fraction of what is produced out of HIS earth for the purpose of disseminating to the people HIS MESSAGE OF THE WAY OF LIFE that will free them from fears and worries, give them peace of mind and happiness, give them joy and success and LIFE ETERNAL!

Yes, even this tenth which God withholds for His use is expended for HUMAN GOOD! For proclaiming His gospel of peace, and happiness and joy and salvation! For letting people know God will heal them when they are sick — that God will deliver them from every trouble — supply their every need! Give them Eternal Life! (You can click the following for the rest of the article: Ending Your FINANCIAL WORRIES)

I will simply add that God is faithful and that one can live in this age as a tithe payer. No modern currency is going to last over a few decades from now (e.g. Does God Have a 6,000 Year Plan? What Year Does the 6,000 Years End?). Do not put your faith in it–particular the USA dollar.

Remember what Jesus taught:

19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. (Matthew 6:19-21)

The world will pass away, but God’s word will not (cf. Matthew 24:35).

Some items of possibly related interest may include:

Tithing Questions and Some Answers Answers questions about tithing and also addresses some non-biblical arguments against tithing. Should people tithe? Here is a link to a related video sermon Tithing Answers from the Bible.
The Plain Truth About Gold in Prophecy. How Should a Christian View Gold? What do economists and the Bible teach about gold? Gold and silver may drop in value. Inflation/deflation? What do Christians need to know about gold? A video of related interest may be: Germany, Gold, and the US Dollar.
Christians: Ambassadors for the Kingdom of God, Biblical instructions on living as a Christian This is a scripture-filled booklet for those wishing to live as a real Christian. A related sermon is also available: Christians are Ambassadors for the Kingdom of God.
Ending Your FINANCIAL WORRIES How can people help themselves and others financially? Herbert W. Armstrong wrote this as a booklet on this important subject. A video of related interest would be: Dealing With Financial Worries.
Gambling and Sin: Is it a Sin for Christians to Gamble? What does the Bible reveal? A related video is Gambling: A Covetous Sin?
What is Armstrongism? Did Herbert W. Armstrong raise a new faith or promote the original Christian faith? Here is a link to a related video: What is Armstrongism? Are Some Dismissive of Original Christianity?
Spiritual Samaritans: Old and New Who were the Samaritans? Do the represent true Christianity or something else? Here is a link to a related sermon: USA in Prophecy: Samaria.
Herbert W. Armstrong, the Philadelphia Church, & the Mantle Herbert Armstrong claims God had him raise the Philadelphia up. Are there reasons to believe that the Philadelphia mantle in now within the CCOG? Here is a link to a related sermon: Herbert W. Armstrong and the Philadelphia Mantle.
Living as a Christian: How and Why? In what ways do Christians live differently than others. What about praying, fasting, tithing, holy days, and the world? There is also a YouTube video related to that also called: Living as a Christian: How and Why?
The MYSTERY of GOD’s PLAN: Why Did God Create Anything? Why Did God Make You? This free online book helps answers some of the biggest questions that human have, including the biblical meaning of life. Here is a link to three related sermons: Mysteries of God’s Plan, Mysteries of Truth, Sin, Rest, Suffering, and God’s Plan, and The Mystery of YOU.

John Martin’s 1834 version of the Deluge

COGwriter

A while back, Pope Francis warned, contrary to scripture, of another great flood:

Pope warns of another ‘Noah’s Flood’: Even though the Bible says it will never happen

Hashem said to Himself: “Never again will I doom the earth because of man, since the devisings of man’s mind are evil from his youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living being, as I have done. Genesis 8:21 (The Israel Bible^TM)

March 3, 2021

In a recently published book, Pope Francis warned that global warming could bring about a “second great flood.” Some critics were quick to point out that his statement seemed to contradict the promise made by God never to bring another flood. But one expert explained taht the pontiff’s statements were actually entirely consistent with the Biblical text.

Pope Francis: Global Warming May Case “Repeat of the Great Flood”

In “Dei vizi e delle virtù” (Of Vices and Virtues), published in Italian on Tuesday, Pope Francis warned that humanity could face a repeat of the Great Flood that wiped out almost all of humanity in the generation of Noah.

“A great flood, perhaps due to a rise in temperature and the melting of glaciers: that is what will happen if we continue on the same path,” Pope Francis said to the Italian priest Fr. Marco Pozza who transcribed the pope’s statements.

Pope Francis explained that the first flood was the result of God’s wrath against the sins of humanity. In the book, he urges world leaders towards ‘prudence’, saying it is the role of governments to “stop and think” before acting rashly.

Pope Francis said that the flood was due to God’s wrath “against injustice, against Satan… against evil”.

“The wrath of God seeks to bring justice and to ‘cleanse.’ The Flood is the result of God’s wrath, according to the Bible,” he said, explaining that it is not God’s will to destroy mankind. “God unleashed his wrath, but he saw a righteous man, took him, and saved him.”

“The story of Noah shows that the wrath of God is also a saving one.”

The pope noted that the Biblical account has been substantiated by science.

“The flood is a historical account, archaeologists say, because they found evidence of a flood in their excavations,” he said. https://www.israel365news.com/187836/pope-warns-of-another-noahs-flood-even-though-the-bible-says-it-will-never-happen/

Yes, the great flood was a historical event.

And yes, while the world will NOT be destroyed again by a great flood, there WILL BE A MAJOR DEVASTATING FLOOD IN THIS CENTURY:

12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place (Revelation 6:12-14).

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great (Revelation 16:17-21).

11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven … 25 And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory (Luke 21:11, 25-27).

Essentially, the Bible shows that the earth will be scorched with heat, there will the greatest earthquake of all time that will level mountains, and that heavenly bodies will fall to the earth as well as apparently into the sea. And this will be followed by the sea and the waves roaring. And if most of the frozen waters have melted by then, the height of these roaring waves apparently will be enough to destroy most who live on islands.

According to the Bible, these prophesies are certain to come to pass (Revelation 22:6).

The following may also be of interest:

Priest Balthassar Mas (17th century): “I saw a land swallowed up by the sea and covered with water. But afterwards, I saw that the sea receded little by little and the land could be seen again. The tops of the towers in the city rose again above the water and appeared more beautiful than before, and I was told that this land was England.” (Dupont, Yves. Catholic Prophecy: The Coming Chastisement. TAN Books, Rockford (IL), 1973, p.32)

While we cannot rely on Roman Catholic private prophecy, the above is consistent with Pope Francis’ warning. The above may have several interpretations. Figuratively, it may mean that Protestant England is to be destroyed and will become Greco-Roman Catholic. Or it may simply mean some type of tsunami will affect England. Or nothing like that will happen. We will see.

That being said, does the amount of water on and in the Earth support the view of the Genesis flood of Noah’s time?

Yes.

According to the US Geological Survey (USGS), it estimates there are 321,000,000 cubic miles of water in, on, or above the Earth. The USGS has also calculated:

About 3,100 mi³ (12,900 km³) of water, mostly in the form of water vapor, is in the atmosphere at any one time. If it all fell as precipitation at once, the Earth would be covered with only about 1 inch of water. https://water.usgs.gov/edu/earthhowmuch.html accessed 08/26/18

So, since there is estimated to be over 100,000 times that amount of water, then the world would be covered by over 100,000 inches or over 1.5 miles of water. With the ground more leveled in Noah’s time than now, the Earth would have been covered (furthermore, I suspect that the USGS estimates are low for Noah’s time, because of atmospheric loss since then).

Consider also the following:

While about 71 percent of the earth is covered with water, 96.5 percent of it is saline and undrinkable ocean water. Surface water is constantly being recycled through evaporation and rainfall. Even the water we use from wells is mostly recycled as part of this process.

But if, as more scientific studies suggest, “primary water” deep beneath the mantle or crust of the Earth exceeds the amount found in all the planet’s oceans, there is hardly a shortage. If it can be extracted to the surface through natural processes or through deep-well drilling, supplies would be unlimited for a thirsty world.

“It’s actually the confirmation that there is a very, very large amount of water that’s trapped in a really distinct layer in the deep Earth,” said Graham Pearson, lead author of the 2014 study and a geochemist at the University of Alberta in Canada. “It translates into a very, very large mass of water, approaching the sort of mass of water that’s present in all the world’s oceans.”

More scientists and researchers are coming to the conclusion that some of this “primary water” is still breaking through to the surface as a result of earthquakes just as the Genesis account of the Flood explained how the entire world was once covered with water. They are also theorizing that the vast reserves of highly pressurized “primary water” are actually causing quakes – again, just as the biblical Flood account described in Genesis 7:11 when “all the fountains of the great deep [were] broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.”

Of course, many people today consider that account simply a myth, legend, superstition.

What does science say?

It’s left with two options for what accounts for all of the Earth’s water:

• It came from extraterrestrial sources – namely comets and asteroids;
• The Earth itself is actually manufacturing water

The latest studies pointing to vast reserves of fresh water – or “primary water” – are being used to lend credence to the second option. Why? Because the previous theory could not begin to explain how water equivalent to or exceeding the water in all of the Earth’s oceans could have found itself deep beneath the planet’s mantle.

So maybe there is another explanation – God made the water. …

Andrew Snelling, a Ph.D geologist from Australia who serves as director of research for Answers in Genesis. He, too, noticed these recent studies and came to conclusions similar to my own.

“It is ironic that secularist scientists are still seeking to explain where the Earth’s water came from,” he writes. “For many years now, they have endeavored to fill in the difficult-to-explain pieces of their ‘story’ about how our home Earth ‘just happened’ to become so habitable for life over the course of its supposed billions-of-years history. Secularists believe the Earth condensed from clumpy matter flung out of the solar nebula 4.56 or so billion years ago. It was thus originally a hot, molten blob that cooled. They used to suggest that most of the water came from inside this cooling Earth, but not enough to fill the oceans we have on the Earth’s surface today. A once popular theory was that comets (which are essentially large, dirty snowballs) collided with the Earth and deposited their water on its surface.”

But that explanation, as I wrote, could not possibly explain oceans of water deep beneath the surface of the planet. With the new evidence for just that, a new explanation was needed – especially because the discovery would, in fact, lend scientific credence to the Genesis account of Creation and the explanation for the Flood. After all, the Flood account specifically says that much of the water broke free from deep inside the Earth.

“Of course, these same secularists and Bible skeptics say, as predicted in 2 Peter 3:3-6, that there never was a global flood on the Earth, even though it is still 70 percent covered in water, which averages more than two miles deep,” writes Snelling. “But ironically, they also say that, due to the many evidences of massive water erosion on Mars, there was a watery flood ‘of Biblical proportions’ on that planet in the past, even though that planet’s surface is dry today!”

Snelling, too, sees the recent studies as evidence of the biblical Flood account.

“The Bible’s description of that outbursting event is merely confirmed by the latest findings of the secular scientists,” he writes. “So the waters that came from inside the Earth, combined with the waters in the original, created oceans to produce the Genesis Flood.” http://www.wnd.com/2017/09/water-science-and-the-bible-2/

The Bible teaches:

7 So Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean animals, of animals that are unclean, of birds, and of everything that creeps on the earth, 9 two by two they went into the ark to Noah, male and female, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (Genesis 7:7-11, NKJV)

11 When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky. (Genesis 7:11, NLT)

Water from the flood included rain as well as the waters below the ground coming up.

As far as deep water goes, consider the following:

February 18, 2023

The Russian project produced a lot of geological data that expanded what we know about the Earth. The Kola superdeep borehole gave a direct look at the structure of the crust …

But the most fascinating find from the Kola Superdeep Borehole was when they ran into flowing water several miles deep beneath the surface. Before that, nobody would have thought that liquid water could exist so deep beneath the surface. https://www.indianpolitics.co.in/a-dig-towards-the-core-of-the-earth-uncovers-a-lot-of-scientific-secrets/

Well, those of us who believe the Bible always accepted that there could be water very, very, deep as that is consistent with what the word of God said was involved with the flood of Noah’s time.

Let it also be pointed out that the highest mountains we have today were NOT as high at the time of Noah’s flood. Interestingly, it was reported about a year ago that Mt. Everest is a couple of feet higher than it was in 1999 (see https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/12/new-height-of-mount-everest-announced-by-china-and-nepal/). Essentially the movement of tectonic plates tends to lift some mountains up, while earthquakes can bring their height down. The Bible hints of a massive tectonic shift after the flood during the lifetime of Peleg (Genesis 10:25, approximately 2200 B.C.), and that shift appears to have caused many mountains to rise greatly from then until present.

Scientists realize that there is enough water for the great flood of Noah’s time, though most will not make that connection publicly.

While biblical critics have suggested that Noah’s flood was only a local matter, last year some researchers claimed there is evidence to support a great flood that affected the Chinese, prior to the start of later Chinese civilization:

August 5, 2016

A Chinese myth that speaks of a flood so high “it threatens the very heavens” may be rooted in fact after all.

Some 4,000 years ago, legend says, the flood tore through a large are of central China washing away cities and inundating farmland.

Enter a hero named Yu the Great, who earned his sobriquet by spending decades organizing a campaign to dig canals to channel the floodwater, supposedly passing his home three times as he traveled the region, but never setting foot inside until the job was done.

Yu was so revered for these public works that he passed into legend as emperor of China’s supposed first dynasty, the mythical Xia Dynasty.

Now, researchers in China say they may have found evidence that the great flood that sparked the myths was, in fact, a real event on the region’s Yellow River. https://weather.com/science/news/scientists-find-evidence-china-legendary-great-flood-was-real

Analysis of the crushed skeletons of children have revealed that an earthquake 4,000 years ago could be the source of a legendary “great flood” at the dawn of Chinese civilisation.

A Chinese-led team found remnants of a vast landslide, caused by an earthquake, big enough to block the Yellow river in what is now Qinghai province, near Tibet. …

The authors put the Yellow river flood at about 1920 BC by carbon dating the skeletons of children in a group of 14 victims found crushed downstream, apparently when their home collapsed in the earthquake. …

The evidence of a massive flood in line with the legend “provides us with a tantalising hint that the Xia dynasty might really have existed”, said one of the authors, David Cohen of National Taiwan University.

Deluges feature in many traditions, from Hindu texts to the biblical story of Noah. In pre-history, floods were probably frequent as ice sheets melted after the last ice age ended … https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/05/chinas-great-flood-tests-on-childrens-bones-support-4000-year-old-legend

“The flood is pouring forth destruction. Boundless and overwhelming, it overtops hills and mountains,” goes a quote attributed to the legendary Emperor Yao. “Rising and ever rising, it threatens the very heavens.”

If civilization was to survive, the people needed a hero who could tame the floodwaters and restore the land. That man was Yu, founder of China’s first dynasty, the Xia. Over the course of decades, Yu organized a dredging campaign, dug channels that would carry the water back to its source, and pioneered a tradition of great Chinese public works.

“He brings order out of the chaos and defines the land, separating what would become the center of Chinese civilization,” said David Cohen, an anthropologist and early Chinese history expert at National Taiwan University. “He is essentially establishing the political order and the ideologies of rulership.”

It is a powerful foundation myth, but many believed that was all it was. Some 4,000 years after the flood was supposed to have happened, historians had found no archaeological evidence of its effect or firsthand accounts of its destruction. There are no historical artifacts from Yu, or the Xia dynasty he founded. All researchers had to go on were stories written long after the fact, dramatized and politicized to justify the ends of those who wrote them.

Until Wu Qinglong, a geologist at Nanjing Normal University, found signs of the flood in the sediments beneath his feet.

In a new paper published Thursday in the journal Science, Wu and his colleagues describe geological evidence for a catastrophic flood on the Yellow River in about 1900 B.C. — right around the time the “Great Flood” was said to have taken place.

“This expands our understanding,” said Andrew Sudgen, deputy editor of Science, “not only of civilization’s origins, but also the environment in which ancestral societies emerged.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/08/04/legends-say-china-began-in-a-great-flood-scientists-just-found-evidence-that-the-flood-was-real/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na

The Bible tells of a massive worldwide flood that occurred (Genesis chapters 6 -8). This seems to have been around 2325 B.C. (see Does God Have a 6,000 Year Plan? What Year Does the 6,000 Years End?).

Since carbon dating has its flaws (it assumes a constant rate of change in all areas which has proven to be incorrect), it could be that the remains found were related to the flood in Noah’s time, or perhaps a different, more local flood, that occurred a few centuries later.

However, there is other evidence in China that the Chinese were aware of the biblical flood.

Notice a couple of statements in the Bible concerning the flood:

1 Then the LORD said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. (Genesis 7:1).

20…in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water (1 Peter 3:20).

A Chinese word chuán for a type of boat is made up of symbols as described:

It may be of interest to note that one of the Chinese symbols for flood (chong) is a combination of an inverted symbol meaning “first Earthly branch” and eight (the term for eight may instead mean “person remaining””–that of itself is interesting as the symbol for eight and “person remaining” look about the same–recall that on the ark there were only eight persons remaining alive).

After the flood, humans stayed together and built a tower:

1 Now the whole earth had one language and one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there. 3 Then they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. 4 And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:1-4).

But God did not care for this:

5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6 And the LORD said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Genesis 11:5-7).

It is highly likely that when people saw others speaking foreign languages, that they thought that somehow, something at this tower affected their mouths. The Chinese symbol of a tower is made up of symbols as described:

The tower of Babel was built with bricks (grass and clay) and humans originally had one language (or mouth). It is possible that this symbol is showing that the ancient Chinese recognized a connection to the biblical tower of Babel. The Bible shows that after God confused the languages in Babel that He scattered humans all over:

8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. 9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth (Genesis 11:8-9).

The Bible also mentions:

25 To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan (Genesis 10:25).

Now whether it was just the scattering of humans that occurred in Peleg’s time, or that the earth had continental divisions at that time is not completely clear. What is clear, however, is that humans did separate, essentially by language and ethnicity, thousands of years ago.

When I tried to copy each of the Chinese characters into this post, they did not copy properly.

To see them, however, simply go to my article China, Its Biblical Past and Future, Part 1: Genesis and Chinese Characters.

That article also has evidence, via Chinese characters, that the ancient Chinese knew about Adam & Eve and more in Genesis.

Of course, other cultures tell of a great flood:

The greatest tale of all is that of the Flood. Noah finds his roots in older legends. Three hundred Flood narratives are known, from the Americas to Australia (from whence comes the tale of the frog that swallowed the world’s water only to spew it out when the other animals made him laugh). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/steve-jones/7887202/Gods-floods-and-global-warming.html

The biblical accounts can be trusted, even if certain ‘experts’ wish to pretend that they are only tales.

There was a flood that affected the entire world. And yes, scientists realize that there is enough water for this to be so.

Some items of potentially related interest may include:

Islands and Bible Prophecy What’s ahead for islands? What does the Bible prophesy about them? Here is a link to a related video: Islands and Biblical Prophecies. Here is a version in Spanish: Las islas en profecia.
China, Its Biblical Past and Future, Part 1: Genesis and Chinese Characters Where did the Chinese people come from? This article provides information showing that the Chinese peoples must have known about various accounts in the Book of Genesis up until their dispersion after the Tower of Babel. Here is a link to a version of this article in Spanish: ¿Prueban los caracteres chinos la exactitud de la Biblia?
Have the Turks and Chinese Just Found Noah’s Ark? Some have so claimed. If true, this could change how much of the world views events from the Bible.
Is God’s Existence Logical? Is it really logical to believe in God? Yes! Would you like Christian answers to give atheists? This is a free online booklet that deal with improper theories and musings called science related to the origin of the origin of the universe, the origin of life, and evolution. Here is a link to a related sermon: Evolution is NOT the Origin of Life. Two animated videos of related interest are also available: Big Bang: Nothing or Creator? and A Lifegiver or Spontaneous Evolution?
How Old is the Earth and How Long Were the Days of Creation? Gap Theory? Does the Bible allow for the creation of the universe and earth billions of years ago? Why do some believe they are no older than 6,000 years old? What is the gap theory? Were the days of creation in Genesis 1:3 through 2:3 24 hours long? Here are links to two sermons: Gap Theory: Doctrine or Modern Heresy? and Genesis, ‘Prehistoric man,’ and the Gap theory. Here is a link to a related article in Spanish: ¿Cuán vieja es la Tierra? ¿Cuán largos fueron los Días de la Creación? ¿Teoría de la brecha?
The MYSTERY of GOD’s PLAN: Why Did God Create Anything? Why Did God Make You? This free online book helps answers some of the biggest questions that human have, including the biblical meaning of life. Here is a link to three related sermons: Mysteries of God’s Plan, Mysteries of Truth, Sin, Rest, Suffering, and God’s Plan, and The Mystery of YOU.
Where Did God Come From? Any ideas? And how has God been able to exist? Who is God?
How is God Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient? Here is a biblical article which answers what many really wonder about it.
Has time been lost? It Saturday the seventh day of the week?
Study the Bible Course Want to learn more about the Bible? This new course is for you! It is also available in French (Leçon 1 En francés), Kiswahili (Somo 1 Katika Kiswahili), Mandarin Chinese (首页 › 中国), Tagalog (KURSO SA PAG-ARAL NG BIBLYA), and Spanish (Lección 1 En castellano).
Read the Bible Christians should read and study the Bible. This article gives some rationale for regular bible reading. Here is a link in Mandarin Chinese: 读圣经 Here is a link in the Spanish language: Lea la Biblia.
Bible: Superstition or Authority? Should you rely on the Bible? Is it reliable? Herbert W. Armstrong wrote this as a booklet on this important subject.
Does God Have a 6,000 Year Plan? What Year Does the 6,000 Years End? Was a 6000 year time allowed for humans to rule followed by a literal thousand year reign of Christ on Earth taught by the early Christians? Does God have 7,000 year plan? What year may the six thousand years of human rule end? When will Jesus return? 2031 or 20xx? There is also a video titled 6000 Years: When will God’s Kingdom Come? Here is a link to the article in Spanish: ¿Tiene Dios un plan de 6,000 años?